What is the 2019 Loan Charge?

[jes107]

Bankruptcy

Debts from fraudulent activity are not written off at the time of bankruptcy. Do you think the 2019 LC will be classified as fraudulent as it is linked to tax avoidance?

[webberg]

Debts from fraudulent activity are not written off at the time of bankruptcy. Do you think the 2019 LC will be classified as fraudulent as it is linked to tax avoidance?

Not sure if there is an errant "not" in the above?

Tax avoidance is not illegal.

Tax abuse is not illegal?

Tax fraud is illegal.

However to date I'm not aware that any of the challenges from HMRC has raised the prospect of criminal fraud being part of the structure.

Whether you would be able to show fraud at the promoter/lender level is probably a legal rather than a tax issue?

[Laxmi]

Treasury committee

https://www.parliament.uk/business/c...isputes-17-19/

Please make the effort in submitting to this committee, it is our chance to be heard. Those affected by DTA as well should highlight it too I think.

[washed up contractor]

https://www.parliament.uk/business/c...isputes-17-19/

Please make the effort in submitting to this committee, it is our chance to be heard. Those affected by DTA as well should highlight it too I think.

We are already onto it.

[Granleigh]

New to the treat of my life falling apart.

I’ve read this thread from start to finish, like many other threads that have been on this forum. I’ve used loan schemes for five years and I’m now looking for what to do about paying back what hmrc think I owe under LC19 or the settlement offers on hmrc website. I spent along time using these schemes and as much as I can resource there is a lot on here about loans, scheme providers, hmrc this, regulation that. I’m new to the issues that prevail, no letters from hmrc for years etc.

I used IQ Contracts throughout and umbrella Contracts limited as the umbrella. Please excuse my newness but there many that in the same position as me. As we were told urgh wrongly about these schemes and the effects that are now apparent. My debt is around 65k for all the years, I have no idea about interest closed years, open etc and after contacting BG I’m none the wiser. Not a dig at them but after many years of the wilderness on this some really good advice for people like me would be great, I’ve scanned bankruptcies, previous cases etc and only to find I still have absolutely no clue what to do. I appreciate this has been going on for a great many years but there are many that have fallen foul of none Dotas disclosure, employer loan schemes that don’t have a clue, promoters that ran pay companies that are still directors of the umbrella companies that peddled these things. How can that happen. Any advise would be greatly received.

[webberg]

On behalf of BG, if you were left "none the wiser" I am surprised as we have had a lot of practice and have had hundreds of conversations with people in your position.

Your post covers a of ground and i think that may be partly the problem?

HMRC is very clear. They think that all the money you received is taxable income. You have not paid the tax and therefore they want it. Where they have opened enquiries into your tax returns, they want interest as well. Where they have not, they will raise a charge on you in 2018/19.

Promoters and others who ran these schemes have largely disappeared with one or two notable exceptions. Expect no help there as they are concerned about protecting themselves as HMRC continue their incoherent campaign.

Advisers in this space tend to be those who were previously connected to one or more schemes in some way or those who were not. The advantage of the former is knowledge of how schemes worked. The disadvantage is that they may not be unbiased. Those advisers who have no previous connections with schemes have the advantage of a better technical analysis from cases etc, but are battling HMRC obstinacy.

We are however advisers. We can explain why you are where you are, your options and the consequences, but we cannot make your decision.

If you PM me, I'll check who you spoke with at BG and we can perhaps try again.

[Realist]

https://www.parliament.uk/business/c...isputes-17-19/

Please make the effort in submitting to this committee, it is our chance to be heard. Those affected by DTA as well should highlight it too I think.

I'm going to sit down and take some quality time over my submittal. There is a farcical perversion of logic at play. A loan charge is being applied/adjusted/confiscated from contractors for tax that is not due as the scheme was perfectly legal and compliant at the time of use, yet the government has callously passed legislation that retrospectively makes it illegal, whist the same schemes are operational, right now perfectly legally.

Read very carefully the wording of the advice you are being given. You are being corralled into a compliant enclosure of your own making.

They would like you to believe that you have only two options. Settle or repay the loan. There is a third option, none of the above. There are tens of thousands of us and bureaucratically, we are their worst nightmare!

This legislation designed for movie stars and footballers, misapplied inherently results in the fact that tens of thousands of productive law abiding citizens (and their families) at the heart of the economy are being forced into an uncontrollable situation where they are worth more dead than alive. This is an intolerable and criminally negligent situation to force any citizen into and ministers heads must roll over this!

Many of you may opt to settle, at least to see what your options are. Some of you will have already paid out money to sharks for "advice"; some of you may be thinking of doing the same. All I can say to you is that after a lot of guff, you will be led to pretty much the same two options with interest.

You have to look at this pragmatically, dump the debt at their expense or be lumbered with repayments for the rest of your lives.

[PauloSS]

Pay the Loan back?

Apologies if this has already been answered but I am new, so thought I'd check.

I have several APNs and investigations going on, going back to 2010. I have generally ignored most of the HMRC letters but a final demand arrived a while back, still ignoring them until that court summons comes then I'll talk to them!

With this new Loan charge legislation I am not sure where I stand but I wanted to know if I start to pay back the loans, would this make a difference? Apologies if this is sounds too simple but the HMRC does not believe these were loans that would be repaid therefore we got taxed. What if we start to payback at £10 per month for example, surely this is proving the intent to pay the loan back, therefore muddies the water in the case? It's not then so clear cut for the HMRC right? The £10 a month example is not be taken seriously guys it's just to prove a point. If this sounds an idea with possible mileage, what if the company/promotor is no longer around who do we pay the loan back to? Surely this muddies the water even more? You cannot pay back someone a loan if the loanee is not around any longer.

Last point what if the whole of the loan can be paid back and then we can retrospectively go back and find an alternative (legal) way to declare the income? If the HMRC can go back retrospectively to tax us once a legal loophole has been made illegal, then surely we are allowed to do the same and select an alternative method to declare our income? Can we push it into a pension for example?

[piebaps]

Ooof. That's not going to end well Paulo.

There are a variety of different approaches you can adopt when dealing with HMRC. Ignoring their correspondence isn't one of the recommended ones. Some correspondence may contain a right for you to appeal against certain actions. That right of appeal can vary but usually requires you to register an objection within a fixed period of time (usually 30 days). Once your appeal time has gone, you're left with whatever it was they did. You should seek professional advice as soon as possible to see whether any of your situation is recoverable.

[WalterWhite]

Apologies if this has already been answered but I am new, so thought I'd check.

I have several APNs and investigations going on, going back to 2010. I have generally ignored most of the HMRC letters but a final demand arrived a while back, still ignoring them until that court summons comes then I'll talk to them!

With this new Loan charge legislation I am not sure where I stand but I wanted to know if I start to pay back the loans, would this make a difference? Apologies if this is sounds too simple but the HMRC does not believe these were loans that would be repaid therefore we got taxed. What if we start to payback at £10 per month for example, surely this is proving the intent to pay the loan back, therefore muddies the water in the case? It's not then so clear cut for the HMRC right? The £10 a month example is not be taken seriously guys it's just to prove a point. If this sounds an idea with possible mileage, what if the company/promotor is no longer around who do we pay the loan back to? Surely this muddies the water even more? You cannot pay back someone a loan if the loanee is not around any longer.

Last point what if the whole of the loan can be paid back and then we can retrospectively go back and find an alternative (legal) way to declare the income? If the HMRC can go back retrospectively to tax us once a legal loophole has been made illegal, then surely we are allowed to do the same and select an alternative method to declare our income? Can we push it into a pension for example?

You need to speak to Webberg