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[LadyPenelope]

I don't have an argument with you really. But again, I say when ordinary folk think they can behave like billionaires, treating tax as an optional extra, something has gone badly wrong.

Fair enough, but something has also gone badly wrong when billionaires don't have to pay their taxes and ordinary folk have to shoulder the lot. It might have been helpful if HMRC had bothered to close these loopholes but they are loath to upset powerful Tory party members, relatives and donors and are simply no match for their lawyers.

My point is that no-one's going to pay more tax than they are legally obliged to.

[BrilloPad]

Fair enough, but something has also gone badly wrong when billionaires don't have to pay their taxes and ordinary folk have to shoulder the lot. It might have been helpful if HMRC had bothered to close these loopholes but they are loath to upset powerful Tory party members, relatives and donors and are simply no match for their lawyers.

My point is that no-one's going to pay more tax than they are legally obliged to.

And its the same at company level. Only small/medium sized companies pay tax.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

In that situation I think I would be looking into a total and probably permanent move to a jurisdiction beyond HMRC reach, if such a place still exists.

There are plenty of places where you would be beyond the reach of HMRC but whether you'd want to live in any of those places permanently is another matter.

When we leave the EU, HMRC might even struggle collecting from anyone just across the channel.

[Fred Bloggs]

There are plenty of places where you would be beyond the reach of HMRC but whether you'd want to live in any of those places permanently is another matter.

When we leave the EU, HMRC might even struggle collecting from anyone just across the channel.

It's a case then of bankruptcy or a tolerable lifestyle somewhere you'd perhaps rather not be? Not a great choice to face.

[Fred Bloggs]

Fair enough, but something has also gone badly wrong when billionaires don't have to pay their taxes and ordinary folk have to shoulder the lot. It might have been helpful if HMRC had bothered to close these loopholes but they are loath to upset powerful Tory party members, relatives and donors and are simply no match for their lawyers.

My point is that no-one's going to pay more tax than they are legally obliged to.

No disagreement there either.

But what I find far more obnoxious is that the previous owner of a large high street store chain draws out hundreds of millions in dividends to an off shore jurisdiction, pays zero tax then sells the remaining company on the brink of collapse for £1. Leaving thousands of people with no job and suppliers with no customer and a pile of bad debt.

[webberg]

The suggestion from HMRC when questioned is that the tax law applies to everyone and all are treated the same.

The reality is that those with the resources to research, invent, execute and defend planning will always do better than those who don't.

I've said before that there is a total mismatch between HMRC's resources (bodies, intelligence, application, motivation) and those of the multinationals (incentivised, specialist trained, know the business, attitude) and therefore little wonder that they "get away" with paying less tax than might be regarded as "fair" and certainly less tax than we're told they pay.

It's also the fact that HMRC loves to play the "tax avoider" card when the reality is that they have failed to act on information held to prevent abuse.

This statement is typical.

DOTAS regulations effective 1st August 2006. Statement that all contractor loan schemes should be disclosed (unproven, possibly not legal, unexplained) 7th July 2016.

Not quite 10 years!

[DotasScandal]

when ordinary folk think they can behave like billionaires, treating tax as an optional extra, something has gone badly wrong.

If you believe anyone but a tiny, very specific fraction got into this sh*t because they thought they could "behave like billionaires", then clearly you haven't spoken to many.

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[LadyPenelope]

No disagreement there either.

But what I find far more obnoxious is that the previous owner of a large high street store chain draws out hundreds of millions in dividends to an off shore jurisdiction, pays zero tax then sells the remaining company on the brink of collapse for £1. Leaving thousands of people with no job and suppliers with no customer and a pile of bad debt.

Couldn't agree more, which is why the law needs to be tightened up wrt offshore tax.

[DotasScandal]

It's a case then of bankruptcy or a tolerable lifestyle somewhere you'd perhaps rather not be? Not a great choice to face.

Is a place where your government throws you under the bus for political gain because you're an easy target a place where you want to be? Can't think of a reason to remain on this cursed island after stunts like these.
More than one have already voted with their feet.
Life is too short.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

I am surprised that more people weren't put off schemes after we were hit with retro back in 2008.

If anything, they became even more popular over the next few years.