The Osborne Ultimatum

[DotasScandal]

Some food for thought at DotasScandalDotOrg

What if the "April 2019" end-of-the-world announcement is all a big bluff, a giant PysOps* action to force us all into settlement ?

Discuss.

*: Psychological Operations or PSYOPS are planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of organizations, groups, and individuals.

[chubacabra]

OK I'll start

I love a game of poker but the stakes are very high for me and everybody else involved.

To take a term from poker I think it is a semi-bluff. I think they are looking to achieve what they wanted to with the settlement opportunity, i.e. force people into coughing up without going to court. This proposition seems more compelling and finite - Settle by 2019 or you'll just get taxed anyway WITHOUT TIME LIMIT.

I do think they will likely force this through parliament because it is in their interest to pass the legislation and make it a slam dunk to get the money into the coffers.

Either way that doesn't change things on the ground for me personally. I will fight until the very last day in 2019. I know pretty much all that remaining will be as well.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Whether it's a bluff, or not, arguably it's sending the wrong message.

You might read it thus:

1) HMRC are not that confident of litigating against pre-2011 schemes
2) HMRC will probably do very little, over the next 3 years, to move their investigations forward
3) If they legislate next year, tax advisors and lawyers will have 2 years to pore over it

And, of course, if you're thinking of leaving the country, 3 years is a long time to pack your bags.

[webberg]

Removed with apologies if misinterpreted.

[difficulttimes]

So what if any impact will the Panama Papers have on the proposed legislation? Will it galvanise them to push ahead or could this bring more exposure to tax avoidance at a time when the PM is not see in the greatest of lights due to his fathers trust so he may want to avoid any further publicity? As anything he does on this area he will be frown upon due to how much his family has benefited in the past.

On a separate but not all together unrelated note, am I right in saying that MPs have impunity from this proposed legislation?

[flamel]

Whether it's a bluff, or not, arguably it's sending the wrong message.

You might read it thus:

1) HMRC are not that confident of litigating against pre-2011 schemes
2) HMRC will probably do very little, over the next 3 years, to move their investigations forward
3) If they legislate next year, tax advisors and lawyers will have 2 years to pore over it

And, of course, if you're thinking of leaving the country, 3 years is a long time to pack your bags.

1 & 2 may be true - however, they need to find a way of keeping the money extorted via APNs. I'm confident that they will find a way of keeping the cash until the very last in spite of any court losses, even if it means dragging their heels for years repeatedly appealing (e.g. see the Barclay Brother's VAT claim - it's been going for years (since 2004 or earlier)
HMRC to appeal against high court award to Barclay brothers of £1.2bn | Politics | The Guardian)

More likely is 3 - they linger over the legislation, scaring people into settlements before the legislation is published.
Then anyone silly enough not to have sorted themselves out will be sent to the Tower of London for public execution. This will be performed by Ed Chopoff Executions Inc (Panama).

[webberg]

TaxTopics for Contractors & Advisers

Is open for a more private discussion on this topic in April if you wish.

[CMS]

Just to clarify..

And of course, providers who filled their pockets with commission and who might (post Murray) be liable, have 3 years to disappear.

Look at Cascade?

I'm sure they will not be the last.

Webberg,

What you and many others fail to understand is that Cascade has been assisting individuals impacted by HMRC enquiries and the APN legislation directly for many years and have been involved in supporting over 3,500 contractors.

All of our former contractors whom have access to the guidance and information via www.contractorupdates.com, a secure portal updated by Saleos Consultancy, the Solicitors of RPC, whom we have worked directly with to gather the thousands of documents for the various Judicial Review proceedings that have been set up for a number of former arrangements in which we were involved. We have over 2,000 contractors in those proceedings for whom payment has been deferred.

A great deal of work has also gone on in assisting with the explanation of the APN process, its impact, individuals options, guidance for joining a judicial review, completing witness statements, tailoring representation letters, to which if people followed the process and joined the Judicial review has resulted in APN payment being stayed, and HMRC have not been able to seize their possessions.

For the past 3 years all Cascade has done is spend each day assisting with enquiry related issues. The commitment was given to contractors when they first met with us, and that commitment is now being put in place. Yes, Cascade is closed, given Cascade was only the billing service for these arrangements and not the structure itself, our closure does not change any of the support currently given to all those who received a payment from the before mentioned arrangements. I should add that substantial funds have been set aside to do that, independently held under the protection of the SRA and which would be returned to any contributors should any funds remain after the fight has been fought. Professional fees are incurred only for work done and are independently verified. Contrast that with, for example, a monthly subscription model which sees funds paid irrespective of work done and which does not allow unspent funds to be returned to those paying them.

For you to group Cascade with those other arrangements that have ‘disappeared’ is not only wrong, but completely untrue.

Anyone who has used Cascade and/or has a profile on our website may not realise it, but they are actually supported and guided by the best in the business, and are given the facts around what is happening and what their real options are and that has been the case for some years. Cascade's closure does not alter that.

Perhaps you can comment on what The Big Group has achieved so far, and how your attempts to obtain a settlement on better terms than the CLSO is going?

Cascade

[Iliketax]

On a separate but not all together unrelated note, am I right in saying that MPs have impunity from this proposed legislation?

No. That is not right.

[LandRover]

Webberg,

What you and many others fail to understand is that Cascade has been assisting individuals impacted by HMRC enquiries and the APN legislation directly for many years and have been involved in supporting over 3,500 contractors.

All of our former contractors whom have access to the guidance and information via www.contractorupdates.com, a secure portal updated by Saleos Consultancy, the Solicitors of RPC, whom we have worked directly with to gather the thousands of documents for the various Judicial Review proceedings that have been set up for a number of former arrangements in which we were involved. We have over 2,000 contractors in those proceedings for whom payment has been deferred.

A great deal of work has also gone on in assisting with the explanation of the APN process, its impact, individuals options, guidance for joining a judicial review, completing witness statements, tailoring representation letters, to which if people followed the process and joined the Judicial review has resulted in APN payment being stayed, and HMRC have not been able to seize their possessions.

For the past 3 years all Cascade has done is spend each day assisting with enquiry related issues. The commitment was given to contractors when they first met with us, and that commitment is now being put in place. Yes, Cascade is closed, given Cascade was only the billing service for these arrangements and not the structure itself, our closure does not change any of the support currently given to all those who received a payment from the before mentioned arrangements. I should add that substantial funds have been set aside to do that, independently held under the protection of the SRA and which would be returned to any contributors should any funds remain after the fight has been fought. Professional fees are incurred only for work done and are independently verified. Contrast that with, for example, a monthly subscription model which sees funds paid irrespective of work done and which does not allow unspent funds to be returned to those paying them.

For you to group Cascade with those other arrangements that have ‘disappeared’ is not only wrong, but completely untrue.

Anyone who has used Cascade and/or has a profile on our website may not realise it, but they are actually supported and guided by the best in the business, and are given the facts around what is happening and what their real options are and that has been the case for some years. Cascade's closure does not alter that.

Perhaps you can comment on what The Big Group has achieved so far, and how your attempts to obtain a settlement on better terms than the CLSO is going?

Cascade

You got some nerve coming on here!

You are not the one who the HMRC is hounding. You are not the one stressed out, getting divorced and financially ruined by being sold into payroll schemes that were assured would not end up ruining us individuals.

You had all your commission, no tax to pay on that, even affiliates got in on it, so called professional accountants sold us onto these schemes with scare stories of IR35, and look who has ended up with their neck on the proverbial block!