CLSO - DEADLINE 30th JUNE

[regron]

I have tried to look this up on HMRC website but no clear guidelines.

Is the CLSO for ALL years you were the user of schemes be Dotas and Non-Dotas, or is the CLSO specifically for DoTAS tax years up to 2010-11?

Up to 2011 only

[bstar1]

Yes - APN is not connected in any way, shape or form with CLSO.

No.

The JR on the APN and the settlement ARE NOT CONNECTED

I still believe I have done nothing illegal !, would this not now assume I'm now entertaining I've done something illegal ?

[Dylan]

I have tried to look this up on HMRC website but no clear guidelines.

Is the CLSO for ALL years you were the user of schemes be Dotas and Non-Dotas, or is the CLSO specifically for DoTAS tax years up to 2010-11?

All be all pre 10/11 years. And they also seem to be including years for which there was no enquiry or discovery assessment open

[webberg]

I still believe I have done nothing illegal !, would this not now assume I'm now entertaining I've done something illegal ?

For the very last time I will go over the legal/illegal argument.

You have an arrangement that in legal form says you have received a loan.

HMRC's argument is that the FACTS and CONTEXT applying to that legal form are such that any reasonable person would conclude it was not a loan but a payment of income. HMRC contend that the SUBSTANCE of the transaction should outweigh the FORM.

If they persuade a judge that this is the case, then the legal form of the loan agreement will be put aside for income tax purposes and instead you will be deemed to have received income.

You have done nothing illegal but the judge prefers to give greater weight to fact and context for income tax purposes.

They may find the opposite for IHT purposes.

So, my advice to you is, FORGET legal/illegal. It's a red herring and is just a minor part of the argument over whatever arrangement you used.

If you cling to the "everything I've done is legal and HMRC can whistle for their money", and ignore all other potential routes to finding an answer, my judgement is that eventually a court will decide whether to apply form over substance or vice versa.

If they decide the former, you have made a great call.

If they decide the latter and you have no other option, you will pay tax, interest and penalty on the alleged "loan".

At the moment, my OPINION - others are available - is that HMRC is perhaps 5 years from a decision. That is a window you should be using to prepare and generate options for yourself.

[jonnieboy]

Schemes after 2011

Just to make sure I'm 100% on this..

The CLSO does not apply to schemes after 2011 regardless of whether they were DOTAS or not, right?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

If they decide the latter and you have no other option, you will pay tax, interest and penalty on the alleged "loan".

I would question penalties. That suggests something of a fraudulent nature.

People who joined these schemes acted on professional advice. HMRC may scaremonger about penalties but I don't see it myself.

[DotasScandal]

I have tried to look this up on HMRC website but no clear guidelines.

Is the CLSO for ALL years you were the user of schemes be Dotas and Non-Dotas, or is the CLSO specifically for DoTAS tax years up to 2010-11?

Up to 2011 only.

[Laxmi]

Settlement

Would this not be shooting ourselves in the foot?
As for Penalties they can't charge that can they?
I was with Montpelier and they always insisted that
penalties would not be charges. After all we declared
everything to hmrc.
Also, as hmrc cannot be trusted, will the change the goalposts
again after people sign up?
The Rangers case is still on going and HMRC have lost twice.
Is this a ploy for them to get more money from us quickly as they
could loose again?

Thanks.

[DotasScandal]

Also, as hmrc cannot be trusted, will the change the goalposts
again after people sign up?

Mmm... I think you already know the answer to this one, don't you?

[webberg]

Would this not be shooting ourselves in the foot?
As for Penalties they can't charge that can they?
I was with Montpelier and they always insisted that
penalties would not be charges. After all we declared
everything to hmrc.
Also, as hmrc cannot be trusted, will the change the goalposts
again after people sign up?
The Rangers case is still on going and HMRC have lost twice.
Is this a ploy for them to get more money from us quickly as they
could loose again?

Thanks.

Register for the CLSO. It's not an admission of anything other than an interest in engaging productively with HMRC.

With respect to Montpelier, it is not for them to be the arbiter of penalties. A penalty could be applied by HMRC, appealed against and finally decided by a judge. Montpelier's opinion, mine or anybody else's is not relevant.

I was making the point that HMRC will threaten penalties but as has been pointed out, there are defences. Whether they are waterproof defences remains to be seen.

I would say that declaring numbers etc to HMRC is not in itself an exemption from penalty. A penalty is based on behaviours. If you deliberately concealed information about a scheme that is a behaviour that WILL be punished. If you have declared everything but HMRC can convince a judge that you have been "careless" by even entering a known tax avoidance scheme, then you could see a charge.

It's not a ploy. A settlement offer whilst litigation is pending is a tried and trusted route used by HMRC to a) collect money, b) reduce resource cost, c) splinter fighting groups, d) discourage further argument.

Consider your options here.

1. Register an interest in settling, get a number and consider it.
2. If the number is lower than you thought, you might take it.
3. If it's not, then what?
4. You litigate = long time, expensive, complex and needs to be organised. Who will organise?
5. You seek a settlement = long time (not as long as 4), less expensive, being organised

DOING NOTHING IS NOT AN OPTION.

Do nothing and you will have applied to your circumstances, the result of a litigation you cannot influence or if there is no organised litigation group, you will have to accept the HMRC interpretation of your position.

Registering for the CLSO costs nothing = DO IT.