BIG GROUP

[MrsB1974]

Thoughts please?

If an APN is paid, *no* fighting group is joined, then in 5 or so (!) years you get notice that you have a date for a JR/FTT (sorry not sure which it would be) to plead your case but you are unable to attend (eg, you live abroad) - does HMRC automatically win and then you get another APN for the interest, etc?

Would they bother taking individuals (ASIoM scheme) to JR/FTT or lump them in with others / try to apply successful cases against similar schemes to the individual?

All the above assumes the individual owes between £3k and £8k total.

Many thanks

[webberg]

Thoughts please?

If an APN is paid, *no* fighting group is joined, then in 5 or so (!) years you get notice that you have a date for a JR/FTT (sorry not sure which it would be) to plead your case but you are unable to attend (eg, you live abroad) - does HMRC automatically win and then you get another APN for the interest, etc?

Would they bother taking individuals (ASIoM scheme) to JR/FTT or lump them in with others / try to apply successful cases against similar schemes to the individual?

All the above assumes the individual owes between £3k and £8k total.

Many thanks

Not quite.

You pay the APN. And then you wait and wait and wait.

IF (big if) HMRC take a case to Court and a final decision is made AND that case is close enough to your scheme then HMRC will contact you and say:

"Mr/Mrs Justice xxxx, said that your liability is 0%/50%/100%/200% of what we asked for via the APN so here is a cheque/please pay the balance"

You are unlikely to be asked to go to Court as that role will have been taken by a willing volunteer 5 or so years earlier.

If you have not negotiated an earlier deal or perhaps taken a new settlement offer that HMRC may issue between now and then (they say no more universal settlements, but they've said that before), then you have the judge's decision applied.

Be careful with that. The Judge may be very precise in saying how and what should be taxed. He/she may be vague, leaving HMRC to put the worst possible spin on it. In the latter case, a further round of discussion is required.

(As an example, look at the Eclipse case. Three strikes down and still HMRC don't have a solid interpretation. In March 2014 I was told that an analysis they shared was 100% solid and had the buy in of HMRC Board. 18 months later, I know that at least 3 of those elements have been changed and there is still no agreement).

What HMRC want is one case that has universal application. given the differences in schemes I think this is big ask. Whilst it is possible to group certain schemes together, a decision on one is unlikely to be EXACTLY a fit for another.

therefore they will try to get a "general principles" victory as well as detailed analysis. If they do and the decision can have wide application, then Follower Notices are likely. These will require you to change your tax return to match the decision. Again, exactly what the decision means is subjective.

The amount of tax at stake individually is not part of the algorithm of whether it will be chased. If it's more than about £100, it will be chased.

Timing? Perhaps 18 months to FTT for the first generic case (although I hear that HMRC is having some issues internally with that) and say 24 months to decision. Appeal (3 more levels if the funding holds out) might be 4/5 years. So between 5 to 7 years.

If another generic case is taken, then the same sort of timescale but obviously if it starts later, it finishes later.

[MrsB1974]

Good grief!

Thank you webberg for such a comprehensive (though depressing) answer.

* sigh *

[bluemonkey71]

Good grief!

Thank you webberg for such a comprehensive (though depressing) answer.

* sigh *

Why would you wait 5-7 years for a decision on such a small amount?

[junio]

Joined in

Hello

Shame, I came across this group so late..

I have just submitted my application to join Big group, paid for the initial membership fee and setup Paypal for monthly payments.
Please advise whats next..
Regards

[DotasScandal]

Hello
Shame, I came across this group so late..
I have just submitted my application to join Big group, paid for the initial membership fee and setup Paypal for monthly payments.
Please advise whats next..
Regards

Better late than never! Actually, it's a perfect time to join, so don't worry.
BG staff will review your documents and once they're satisfied it's all good, you will receive your access codes for the private forum.
See you there.

[DotasScandal]

Why would you wait 5-7 years for a decision on such a small amount?

Maybe because 1/ "small" is relative and 2/ you refuse being extorted?

[MrsB1974]

Why would you wait 5-7 years for a decision on such a small amount?

Hi bluemonkey, do you mean as opposed to settling?

[junio]

Moving out of country?

What if someone decides to leave the country and not pay the APN? Go and live in some asian country?

[junio]

BIG GROUP

If I am doing contracting in Europe and take payments in to UAE based offshore company, can HMRC attack me?

I am thinking of alternative, these <mod snip> are trying to suck blood, so why should I bring money for the work done outside of UK in to UK and pay these <mod snip> any tax.

If they can twist arm and demand APNs, then I can manage the future taxes -no?

Any tax advise?