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Ramsay defeated

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    #41
    Originally posted by centurian View Post
    Happy to be corrected, but you do get quite a lot of people posting on here that they think our state is far worse than Mugabe etc. That annoys me - I feel a sense of perspective is required - as there are millions of people in the world that are living under such tyranny every single day - who would probably give their right hand (if it hasn't already been cut off) to be living under our level of "persecution".ery
    Rant over...
    Not buying the "we don't have it that bad, look at [insert 3d world country of your choice], people there would love to live under our level of "persecution"..." rhetoric. That's comparing apples to oranges.

    Yes, a sense of perspective is needed, but there are many nuances, too. A political system does not have to be a full blown, easily recognizable dictatorship to be oppressive. More often, it poses as a democracy to some extent while at the same time having, for all intents and purposes, authoritarian tendencies.
    As it happens, our country's elites' default mode of dealing with the population is the stick/carrot approach (rather than a civilized, human-to-human approach).
    Just look at HMRC's main mode of communication, which is straight out of 1984 (the novel): "we are watching you", "we are closing in on you", "if you don't do XXX, you are at risk of [insert punishment of your choice]"...or just the overall tone of every single letter they send you!
    All in all, it is a very crude, unsophisticated way of dealing with the populace.

    Contrast it, for example, with Northern Europe, where dealings with administration are polite, honest, and professional, and where the population is actually HAPPY to pay high tax, because people know the politicians will be held accountable for what the money is spent on.
    (Yes, I know consent is always manufactured...but believe it or not, it is easier to get people to pay their taxes by talking to them like intelligent human beings, rather than treating everyone as "guilty until proven innocent" and using various "naming and shaming" tactics...)
    It is a social contract that has no equivalent in the UK, where politicians just get away with making bad law, patching it with worse law (retrospective if necessary), and telling the plebs who dare protest to STFU.
    I assure you the British way is quite peculiar when compared with many other western countries. Go work abroad for a year or two (in a non Commonwealth country), and you'll understand what I mean.

    Rant over
    Last edited by DotasScandal; 5 April 2015, 22:24.
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      #42
      +1

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        #43
        Did HMRC appeal?

        Originally posted by webberg View Post
        http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.go...78/TC04302.pdf

        The above case concerns attempts by a property group to avoid tax on the sale of properties to British Land.

        They were challenged by HMRC on the grounds that the complicated structure that sought to use the group relief provisions should be ignored due to the tax avoidance purpose.

        HMRC lost the case. The Judge decided that, even though the result was "unsatisfactory", he had to find for the taxpayer as the group relief rules created an artificial situation and was a self sustaining code to which commercial motives cannot be applied. see para 143.

        Following from Tower Radio, are we seeing some ground being recovered?

        Too early to say and this case will be appealed, but a good reason to continue a debate with HMRC rather than fold.

        Just wondering if this was appealed - what is the time limit for appeal?

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          #44
          Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
          Am not trolling just not subscribing to throwing a party every time HMRC lose something. There are genuine tax evaders out there. I'd be happy to hear your comments. If HMRC are wholly wrong here I'm big enough to accept it.
          But your first response used the quote of tax avoidance, so please make the assertion that avoidance and evasion are different, it doesn't help when the muddying of the water by posters is similar to HMRC rhetoric.

          If HMRC and government simplified the tax system then many wouldn't suffer the HMRC abuse of their powers. But there again so called tax specialist accountants and lawyers wouldn't have a permanent income stream
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