Ramsay defeated

[northernladuk]

Genuine tax evader? Tax evasion is a criminal offence.

Yes and?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Yes and?

What?

[northernladuk]

Well this one has gone wrong. Am out.

[ASB]

Genuine tax evader? Tax evasion is a criminal offence.

I think one of the issues is that if hmrc go the evasion route then it is in a criminal court beyond reasonable doubt. A much higher barrier hence they are minded to go to tribunal where it is easier.

This may be part of the muddying waters.

Hmrc have had some spectacular, and to me surprising, defeats in the criminal courts. Dodd and Rednapp spring to mind. Of course the juries spoke.

edit: obviously not any form of evasion here. The various rules seem largely mandated to mem they might not like the result, but it looks inevitable and I dont really see how hmrc could have hoped to win apart from by hoping to rump with ramsay.

[SantaClaus]

Am not sure that HMRC loosing a large chunk of income through a complex tax avoidance strategy is really a banana moment. The money would have gone to the public purse so could argue we all lose out.

The outcome even admits it's a tax avoidance measure. It's just Parliment's definition of groups have allowed them to exploit a legal but not moral loophole. Not really a victory in my book I am afraid.

Somebody who still thinks tax goes to the public purse and doesn't just line the pockets of MPs and their corporate friends... bless!

[Not Losing Any Sleep]

Somebody who still thinks tax goes to the public purse and doesn't just line the pockets of MPs and their corporate friends... bless!

A judge would never admit to it in 1000 years but you have to wonder if the recent defeats of Ramsay are the Judges' response to APNs and all other tosh the govt and HMRC are inflicting on us.

[SantaClaus]

A judge would never admit to it in 1000 years but you have to wonder if the recent defeats of Ramsay are the Judges' response to APNs and all other tosh the govt and HMRC are inflicting on us.

Would be nice to think so, but this country and it's corruption are rotten to the core.

[webberg]

Would be nice to think so, but this country and it's corruption are rotten to the core.

I would defend the comments about a loss for HMRC being a loss for everybody IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE CASE.

The company set out with the clear intention of avoiding tax. To date they have done that. The UK taxpayer has lost out on around £30m of tax.

the fact that the judges felt compelled to find the way they did is important for all those who did not set out with a clear tax avoidance (and no other) purpose.

Contractors did their planning based on the letter of the law. Some were absolutely aware that it was tax avoidance. Most I suggest assumed that because everybody was doing it and HMRC were silent (approval by omission) then it was fine.

there is consequently a difference in the cases and I can sympathise with those who feel that we've all lost because of the result in the case but feel equally aggrieved at the treatment afforded contractors.

[MicrosoftBob]

I would defend the comments about a loss for HMRC being a loss for everybody IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE CASE.

The company set out with the clear intention of avoiding tax. To date they have done that. The UK taxpayer has lost out on around £30m of tax..

It's a companies legal duty to pay as little tax as possible, avoiding tax is a legal way of doing that, just because Hector tries to conflate tax avoidance and tax evasion in the court of public opinion does not make it a fact

Tax avoidance is legal, you do it if you ever cycle...you are avoiding paying duty on petrol, if you don't smoke you are avoiding paying tax, if you use your personal allowance you are intentionally avoiding tax

In short you can't breath without avoiding tax, and tax avoidance is legal

[northernladuk]

It's a companies legal duty to pay as little tax as possible, avoiding tax is a legal way of doing that, just because Hector tries to conflate tax avoidance and tax evasion in the court of public opinion does not make it a fact

Tax avoidance is legal, you do it if you ever cycle...you are avoiding paying duty on petrol, if you don't smoke you are avoiding paying tax, if you use your personal allowance you are intentionally avoiding tax

In short you can't breath without avoiding tax, and tax avoidance is legal

Unless it's classed as aggressive and suddenly it is much more unclear.