Joint action on APN

[regron]

My wife has banned me from opening any of these letter till after the holiday/weekend in question.

Great idea !! as I am convinced it will drop on my door mat this Thursday !!!

[lilikins1]

I wonder if HMRC thought they had a really strong case, they would just act professionally in a matter of fact way rather than try and "nudge" people into settling by scaring them with pre holiday/weekend letters?

My wife has banned me from opening any of these letter till after the holiday/weekend in question.

They sound like something out of Only Fools and Horses

[webberg]

I wonder if HMRC thought they had a really strong case, they would just act professionally in a matter of fact way rather than try and "nudge" people into settling by scaring them with pre holiday/weekend letters?

My wife has banned me from opening any of these letter till after the holiday/weekend in question.

You need to understand the internal organisation of HMRC.

Until perhaps 4 years ago it was essentially a series of fiefdoms in which individual Inspectors had control of their unit and considerable discretion about how they operated within it. Reference to a "higher authority" was limited.

That started to change when a previous head of HMRC made a sweetheart deal (as described by a Parliamentary committee and denied by an "official report") and he was allowed to overrule not just his own advisers and rules but also ignore clear instructions.

HMRC started moving to a more centralised operation where discretion was stripped from Inspectors and lodged with "policy teams" and "theme leads". As you can imagine this was not a smooth process and continues to cause road crashes.

The result of this centralisation is a standard approach to all things and thus because HMRC has been told by a consulting firm that a demand arriving pre weekend/holiday has more impact, this happens for EVERYBODY, not just contractors. I know it feels personal but it's NOT.

The previous organisation made it easy for "deals" to be done and they were. The present organisation makes it almost impossible to get a deal.

If somebody advertises "special access" to HMRC or "mates rates" because they worked there for 120 years, they are misleading you. Even if an ex Inspector knows people in HMRC, they are not able to extract better deals.

File this under "understand your opponent"

[flamel]

In fairness that is no different to the representative selected for this joint action who was involved in the creation of EBT schemes and now seems to have switched to defending them.

Some of them though, like a very large well known firm, have been given a lot of flak by the PAC

[flamel]

You need to understand the internal organisation of HMRC.

HMRC started moving to a more centralised operation where discretion was stripped from Inspectors and lodged with "policy teams" and "theme leads". As you can imagine this was not a smooth process and continues to cause road crashes.

The result of this centralisation is a standard approach to all things and thus because HMRC has been told by a consulting firm that a demand arriving pre weekend/holiday has more impact, this happens for EVERYBODY, not just contractors. I know it feels personal but it's NOT.

The previous organisation made it easy for "deals" to be done and they were. The present organisation makes it almost impossible to get a deal.

This sounds very much like banks, where credit decisions were moved to the centre and local bank managers were sidelined.

That worked out well......

[flamel]

They sound like something out of Only Fools and Horses

I'd prefer to think of it in a more Monty Python type of way

[webberg]

In fairness that is no different to the representative selected for this joint action who was involved in the creation of EBT schemes and now seems to have switched to defending them.

That's a tricky call.

I'll declare an interest in that I spent 15 years designing, developing, delivering, defending tax planning structures for banks, HNWI and others. I've spent the last 12 months or so applying that knowledge in getting settlement for people who did them.

HMRC don't understand the structures and the nuances involved. They are focused on the "tax today" and not on the "tax tomorrow" or commercial elements (i.e. just because HMRC say it's not a loan, that's not how a lawyer may view it when it comes to unwind).

So, who better to explain this than the person who put it together and presumably knows how to take it apart?

I understand that it seems immoral or unethical for somebody who took a fee to get you in, is now taking a fee to get you out (at least partly).

You could go to another party but can you afford the time they need to spin up to speed on the structure etc? Quite a fine balance perhaps?

[lilikins1]

I'd prefer to think of it in a more Monty Python type of way

It s so true. there s defo scope for a monty python type like movie on HMRC. I wonder if the Ingenious partners are thinking about funding one ... the life of Hector.

[lilikins1]

It s so true. there s defo scope for a monty python type like movie on HMRC. I wonder if the Ingenious partners are thinking about funding one ... the life of Hector.

[lilikins1]

I'd prefer to think of it in a more Monty Python type of way

I may send them a recommendation... imagine, all this APN palava would be perfect. So sir, can I have your money even do I'm not sure you owe it to me, bankrupting people left right and centre, all the Swiss Bank account holder fiasco with HSBC, company owners trying to commit suicide because HMRC got it wrong, all the stories are there to be played, no need to leave anything to the imagination lol