HMRC Enquiries: Bedouin/Redstone

[ascanio]

Rply letter from HMRC

Hi guys, this is the first page I received form the HMRC, the second page concerns personal information. Anybody else have a similar letter. Many thanks in advance. Been waiting for over 5 days for somebody from Bedouin/Restone to contact me, as always Michele is in a "meeting"


1. Please advise why your client agreed to remuneration of 15% of the gross contract value ie permitting Bedouin management ltd to retain 85%

2. The loan agreement is unsigned and does not have the first loan amount completed. Please let me have a signed copy with the amount relating to the first loan completed. My information request attached to my letter of November at 1 asked the following.

'Please provide details of work done in the year ending 5 April 2013 to include.

a. The name of the business and address of the premises where you worked.

b. The start and finish date of each contract.

c. The nature of the work done.

d. The name of the employer for each contract.

e. How you were engaged to enter into the contract to include the names and address of any agencies or other third parties involved"

Regarding (a), you have advised your client worked at Hill Meadow, Douglas IOM, but this is the address of Bedouin Management Ltd and Redstone Services Ltd. Please advise where he actually worked.

Regarding (c) Please advise the nature of consultancy work.

Regarding (e) Please advise how your client was engaged to work for an end user. For example did the end user contact a recruitment agent who the contacted him.

By the way, I work in the North Sea, the assets I work on do not have an address as such, I think the HMRC do not know this, left it in the hands of my accountant.

Also, the loan agreement was signed by myself and dated, but the amount was not written down as Bedouin would do this I presume when they received my scanned and emailed document. All I did was acted in good faith with Bedouin.

[derekdunn1873]

Bedouin 2010 HMRC Request

Hello,

I am new to this forum so apologies if I am doing anything wrong...

I used Bedouin for around 1 year from October 2009 to October 2010 and have just noticed a request for payment of tax on my online tax account. I have not at this stage received any letters from HMRC, although am expecting one in the post now...

I thought as I had finished with the company in October 2010 that there would be no issue, but those staying with this type of service may be at risk.

I called HMRC and they mentioned that this related to Bedouin, so I said to them I would take it up with the company directly. I just emailed Bedouin now to get their advice, I am assuming they will provide me with a standard response letter?

I now live in the USA, and have done so for a few years now. What difference does this make? I still have a house in the UK but have no intention of returning to the UK.

[p1clw]

Hello,

I am new to this forum so apologies if I am doing anything wrong...

I used Bedouin for around 1 year from October 2009 to October 2010 and have just noticed a request for payment of tax on my online tax account. I have not at this stage received any letters from HMRC, although am expecting one in the post now...

I thought as I had finished with the company in October 2010 that there would be no issue, but those staying with this type of service may be at risk.

I called HMRC and they mentioned that this related to Bedouin, so I said to them I would take it up with the company directly. I just emailed Bedouin now to get their advice, I am assuming they will provide me with a standard response letter?

I now live in the USA, and have done so for a few years now. What difference does this make? I still have a house in the UK but have no intention of returning to the UK.

Hi guys

I'm new here....

I too worked for Bedouin for a short time in 2010-11 and received a letter for payment yesterday

I had no previous letters, just this one requesting me to pay within 30 days.....

The front page letter talks about "I estimate" and "we believe" to me suggests they are hoping I just cough up and move on....

[nelmo]

Yeah, I got this totally out of the blue - a demand to pay with a calculation to show how they've got their figure, which doesn't actually add up but anyway...

They are already investigating my 2013 return and they say they have sent this demand to the same accountants as I have referenced in that investigation (BestPay) - not sure why.

Bit confused about where this has come from but I am waiting for BestPay to advise how to respond (they sent me a template to use for the other investigation, so maybe something similar again).

[Optimist]

HMRC Enquiries: Bedouin/Redstone

Hi I too received a letter today from the HMRC request <mod snip: too much info> relating to a bedouin from 2010-11, this was totally out of the blue and that was the only time i contracted as i am now in permanent full time employment and have been for the last 5 years. the letter doesn't ask for any information. the letter references section 29 taxes management act 1970. and also states that the tax due arose from tax avoidance arrangements entered into with bedouin.

when going into contract with bedouin they said that the scheme was fully compliant, and if HMRC thought that the scheme was an avoidance of tax why not send something that year instead of 5 years later?? theres no way i can pay that money.

Is there anyway to challenge this? if that group is still going I would like to join.

[p1clw]

Hi I too received a letter today from the HMRC request <mod snip: too much info> relating to a bedouin from 2010-11, this was totally out of the blue and that was the only time i contracted as i am now in permanent full time employment and have been for the last 5 years. the letter doesn't ask for any information. the letter references section 29 taxes management act 1970. and also states that the tax due arose from tax avoidance arrangements entered into with bedouin.

when going into contract with bedouin they said that the scheme was fully compliant, and if HMRC thought that the scheme was an avoidance of tax why not send something that year instead of 5 years later?? theres no way i can pay that money.

Is there anyway to challenge this? if that group is still going I would like to join.

Contact Bedouin and they will advise you of what to do....don't worry

[webberg]

Hi I too received a letter today from the HMRC request <mod snip: too much info> relating to a bedouin from 2010-11, this was totally out of the blue and that was the only time i contracted as i am now in permanent full time employment and have been for the last 5 years. the letter doesn't ask for any information. the letter references section 29 taxes management act 1970. and also states that the tax due arose from tax avoidance arrangements entered into with bedouin.

when going into contract with bedouin they said that the scheme was fully compliant, and if HMRC thought that the scheme was an avoidance of tax why not send something that year instead of 5 years later?? theres no way i can pay that money.

Is there anyway to challenge this? if that group is still going I would like to join.

A scheme that is "fully compliant" does not mean it's not avoidance.

The phrase is a weasel form of words that means "we'll tell HMRC all about it and perhaps deduct a small amount of tax in order to make it look like PAYE".

It does not mean that EVERY tax effect has been taken into account. It very much does not mean that HMRC has blessed with scheme with approval. HMRC NEVER - repeat NEVER - pre approve schemes.

You should join the group and seek professional help.

[derekdunn1873]

Professional Help

Can anyone shed any light on what professional help would entail?

Nobody knows as much about a scheme as the operators, therefore obviously first port of call is them.

After that, I suppose an accountant could work out what the actual liability is vs the HMRC estimate (which should be reasonably easy to do if they give you their figures)

This whole thing hinges on a court decision on many peoples cases that may not be resolved in the foreseeable future. Any advice an accountant will give will be not much more than guess work, and risk vs reward for the amount you owe?

I apologize for my probable underestimation of the complications of tax accountancy, however there are thousands of people in exactly the same situation (I'm sure bedouin used an off the shelf solution for all) and therefore individual advice surely will depend on the accountant you get? I would be interested in hearing what individual accountants say, but have heard some say the complete opposite to others, leaving me to think that this is not an exact science.

A scheme that is "fully compliant" does not mean it's not avoidance.

The phrase is a weasel form of words that means "we'll tell HMRC all about it and perhaps deduct a small amount of tax in order to make it look like PAYE".

It does not mean that EVERY tax effect has been taken into account. It very much does not mean that HMRC has blessed with scheme with approval. HMRC NEVER - repeat NEVER - pre approve schemes.

You should join the group and seek professional help.

[webberg]

Can anyone shed any light on what professional help would entail?

Nobody knows as much about a scheme as the operators, therefore obviously first port of call is them.

After that, I suppose an accountant could work out what the actual liability is vs the HMRC estimate (which should be reasonably easy to do if they give you their figures)

This whole thing hinges on a court decision on many peoples cases that may not be resolved in the foreseeable future. Any advice an accountant will give will be not much more than guess work, and risk vs reward for the amount you owe?

I apologize for my probable underestimation of the complications of tax accountancy, however there are thousands of people in exactly the same situation (I'm sure bedouin used an off the shelf solution for all) and therefore individual advice surely will depend on the accountant you get? I would be interested in hearing what individual accountants say, but have heard some say the complete opposite to others, leaving me to think that this is not an exact science.

No need to apologise and it's sensible to understand what you're getting into before committing to a lot of fees.

A provider does NOT necessarily understand the schemes they sell. Perhaps more accurately they are prone to gloss over those risks in a scheme that don't help in "sales".

A professional adviser would be able to analyse a scheme and calculate the likely consequences in an objective manner. He/she is likely to present you with a range of options and the chances of each of those options working, the likely time required and the costs.

The adviser is (or should be) up to speed in the latest decisions and likely direction of travel for schemes pre litigation and those where the trigger has been pulled. For this reason it is often better to go to somebody with relevant niche knowledge rather than the High St accountant. I'm not being disrespectful to such but it's a full time job keeping up with the avoidance bandwagon.

The adviser can act as intermediary with HMRC. It depends how deep you want them to go with that. Just a postbox + advice or challenge to technical analysis + litigation? You need to discuss and understand this because you are paying the bills.

The adviser should not be using guesswork. I suppose the line between an informed attempt at the end result and a guess is a fine one but as has been remarked "The more I practice, the luckier I get".

Join a group if possible. This spreads cost and gets a better range of opinion. Sorting the good opinion from the bad is important. Tempting as it is, the opinion that says "you owe nothing" is not always the best one. An adviser will help you be objective in this assessment.

Most importantly an adviser is working for YOU. He/she does not have conflicting motives that a provider may have, nor any skin in the game in trying to keep you as a client post resolution. He/she is paid to do exactly the job YOU want and nothing else.

Some advisers are better than others in particular fields.

There is much to be said for the large accounting and legal firms with their resources. Tax partner time there might be close on £1,000 an hour.

First/second division firms will be cheaper (say up to £700/hour) and it's unlikely that there is much difference in service.

Small (usually provincial) firms will be cheaper again but may not have expertise. They may charge £400/500 per hour but if they have to spend 10+ hours just getting up to speed, overall the cost is about the same as the first two groups,

Specialist firms are more flexible in pricing, especially if acting for a group. Fixed fees are sometimes found although in this area that might be a little way off at the moment.

Beware those promising special access to HMRC. That does not exist. A lot of us who deal with HMRC have names and contacts and usually good relations with those officers. Ultimately however HMRC publishes its intentions and objectives in the area of avoidance and litigation and individual officers, no matter how sympathetic (or matey with adviser) have little or no influence.

In summary an professional adviser offers expertise, technical awareness, up to date information on HMRC policy and expected outcomes and objectivity. Crucially he/she works for YOU and is not conflicted.

Disclaimer: Yes I am such an adviser.

[flamel]

In summary an professional adviser offers expertise, technical awareness, up to date information on HMRC policy and expected outcomes and objectivity. Crucially he/she works for YOU and is not conflicted.

I so agree with this. Get a well qualified tax advisor, it's worth paying for. I just wish I'd had one of these years ago.