Paying back what you haven't got.

[retrodeath]

From the forum it seems I won't be the only one in this position. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has reverted to ltd company, or a permanent role after 2010 EBT clamp down. So we're earning, and paying tax. We're income to HMRC.

Time to pay seems to extend to minimal time periods. I've seen anything from a year to 5 years quoted. I did schemes for 4 years and couldn't pay the tax demand back in 5.

There's a lot of scare stories about bankrupting people but I'm inclined to agree with those that say HMRC don't want this. It doesn't make sense financially and the press will destroy them if they convert tax payers to benefit scroungers. Bankruptcy for many will also sever their financial job options, compounding the issue. I don't think anyone wants this.

HMRC want to shout from the rooftops that they've gathered all due monies. Then make it impossible for you to get it back.

It will surely make a lot if sense to give people a financial outlet. Whether they can afford to pay through their own steam or not. So offer it to anyone with afftected by FN or APN. They won't want to do this themselves because money lending is not their business, lending you the money defeats the point of swelling their coffers and their 3% interest is a snip. Time to pay is just a concession they probably had to make once. They probably hate having to do it.

I saw another post and entities positioning themselves to do exactly this. Even though it hasn't been proven in a court of law that I owe this money, I want this thing behind me and to move on to the extent that I'm willing just to pay what they say if the terms are favourable. Who wants another 6 years of wasted litigation money, feeding vultures with the end result being that I don't think HMRC will ever leave you alone. Their willingness to do whatever it takes is clear.

200k over 10 years at say 7% interest with the option to pay down early as and when is a very attractive option to me.

HMRC get their cash. One of their cronies companies gets some interest, I don't face bankruptcy, I can still work in a bank, HMRC get my tax, they don't pay me benefits, the issue is put to bed.

As it stands, they'll get nothing from me and covert me to a scroungers should they force bankruptcy.

[BrilloPad]

A pity this was not posted in general where you might get more response.

No-one is sure if HMRC will be practical or not. They might just want to make an example of people.

I am preparing for bankruptcy. Hope for the best - prepare for the worst.

[Mojito]

Forced bankruptcy on an unproven debt?

Does a bankruptcy petition not have to be approved by some external entity such as a judge? I'm sure that they would have a view on the fact that the HMRC debt on an APN is assumed in lieu of proof, and a basic tenet of UK law is innocent until proven guilty. APN's may be law and those that have the dosh will need to cough up, but when it comes to a resulting bankruptcy it does not appear that clear-cut to me.

Am I missing something....?

[Rob79]

I think an APN will be a contractual debt in the eyes of a judge.

Not an expert on this but HMRC seem to think this is the case.

[malvolio]

I think an APN will be a contractual debt in the eyes of a judge.

Not an expert on this but HMRC seem to think this is the case.

That's how I read it. If all else fails, you are required to pay that money first when you are in a position to do so. However, IANAL!

[BrilloPad]

Does a bankruptcy petition not have to be approved by some external entity such as a judge? I'm sure that they would have a view on the fact that the HMRC debt on an APN is assumed in lieu of proof, and a basic tenet of UK law is innocent until proven guilty. APN's may be law and those that have the dosh will need to cough up, but when it comes to a resulting bankruptcy it does not appear that clear-cut to me.

Am I missing something....?

You miss nothing. I would also be wary that if a person is made bankrupt, and debt not proveable, then how does person get back into the position they had previously?

I think an APN will be a contractual debt in the eyes of a judge.

Not an expert on this but HMRC seem to think this is the case.

It depends on the judge. Get one who is looking for an honour and the right result will come out. Look at Judge Parker in the S58 case.

[Mojito]

Charge order

So would a charge order over assets be something more appropriate rather than bankruptcy for any sane judge presented with a bankruptcy petition? Bankruptcy is not upheld so there's no blacklisting for FS contracts, the theoretical debt is held and may be wiped out should the Tax courts do a Rangers, and the tax payer carries on earning money and paying tax on what they earn / spend etc?

I just can't see how someone can lose their living, home & suffer the domestic trauma of bankruptcy based on an as-yet unproven debt. The fact that HRMC may think it all cool may not carry much weight with a sane judge.

[BrilloPad]

That's how I read it. If all else fails, you are required to pay that money first when you are in a position to do so. However, IANAL!

I would also be very careful about anything Mal(evolent) says on this subject. I still remember his thread on s58 in the closed PCG forums "The CNs are coming in and the whining has started". It gave amble opportunity for Mal and his cronies to have a jolly good laugh at those facing bankruptcy. No doubt when an S58er topped himself they got the champers out.

[malvolio]

I would also be very careful about anything Mal(evolent) says on this subject. I still remember his thread on s58 in the closed PCG forums "The CNs are coming in and the whining has started". It gave amble opportunity for Mal and his cronies to have a jolly good laugh at those facing bankruptcy. No doubt when an S58er topped himself they got the champers out.

You don't half talk some bollocks. PCG forums aren't closed, they're members only and I didn't say anything on there I haven't also said on here (actually I said very little on there since s58 didn't apparently touch any PCG members and all you contributed was yet more pointless complaining rather than trying to get help. Go figure). That was four years ago and I dropped out of the discussion about then when it was clear you were all only going to listen to yourselves and nobody else so there was not point trying. Some of us have moved on.

And not that I give a damn anyway what you think but FWIW I see the same blind optimism in this thread as well. You guys need to deal with the reality, not whinge about how unfair it all is. It is f***ing unfair, and should never have been allowed but it has. Deal with it..

[vern19]

Paying back what you haven't got.

You don't half talk some bollocks. PCG forums aren't closed, they're members only and I didn't say anything on there I haven't also said on here (actually I said very little on there since s58 didn't apparently touch any PCG members and all you contributed was yet more pointless complaining rather than trying to get help. Go figure). That was four years ago and I dropped out of the discussion about then when it was clear you were all only going to listen to yourselves and nobody else so there was not point trying. Some of us have moved on.

And not that I give a damn anyway what you think but FWIW I see the same blind optimism in this thread as well. You guys need to deal with the reality, not whinge about how unfair it all is. It is f***ing unfair, and should never have been allowed but it has. Deal with it..

I do suspect you get a little thrill out of other peoples misfortune. It is very apparent <mod note removed>