Why bother with an EU referendum?

[darmstadt]

I quite like watching Nigel farage telling the Eurocrats what a bunch of serial wasters they all are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y2VrhjWj9E

Pot...kettle...

[KentPhilip]

Because ultimately it is UK taxpayers that are forking out. I actually think it is sleazy and disgraceful that UKIP should seek to plunder money from the EU just because they do not agree with its existence. I do not have a problem if they are accepting pay to shun the EU , because that is what they have been elected to do (ignore votes and show no respect for the EU). To go the extra mile and claim as much expense as they can without seeming to do anything for it is a disgrace. This behaviour also lacks dignity and it shows them up as being opportunists completely lacking any integrity.

Their behaviour is also sending out certain messages to the UK electorate. Whilst people are happy to vote for them to get the UK out of the EU or put pressure on our incumbent parties to sort the EU out no one is going to trust them with anything beyond this.

When Britain was fighting Germany in the war, would it have been regarded as sleazy and disgraceful if Britain sold off the parts of a shot-down Dornier bomber that crashed on British soil? I very much doubt it. Britain at that time was on its back and needed all the help it could get. So any captured German resources were fair game to use.
The fact that the money originally came from the UK taxpayer is hardly relevant because it is where the money is now that is key - it is in the hands of the EU awaiting being wasted. If UKIP don't take it you can be sure it will be wasted on Bulgarian gay-friendly windfarms or some other crap, i.e. not benefiting the UK voters.

UKIP has not been given a democratic mandate to "shun the EU" but to "get Britain out of the EU", with no restriction on the methods (legal) by which they do this. Destroying and weakening the EU helps achieve that objective because it reduces its ability to campaign against UKIP's message to British voters. Every penny UKIP takes from the EU is used for campaigning - It is not a rich party - money is always short. UKIP does not have big business to support it like the tories, or the unions like Labour - it is just members like me (and a £1.5 million donation from Paul Sykes).

[DodgyAgent]

When Britain was fighting Germany in the war, would it have been regarded as sleazy and disgraceful if Britain sold off the parts of a shot-down Dornier bomber that crashed on British soil? I very much doubt it. Britain at that time was on its back and needed all the help it could get. So any captured German resources were fair game to use.
The fact that the money originally came from the UK taxpayer is hardly relevant because it is where the money is now that is key - it is in the hands of the EU awaiting being wasted. If UKIP don't take it you can be sure it will be wasted on Bulgarian gay-friendly windfarms or some other crap, i.e. not benefiting the UK voters.

UKIP has not been given a democratic mandate to "shun the EU" but to "get Britain out of the EU", with no restriction on the methods (legal) by which they do this. Destroying and weakening the EU helps achieve that objective because it reduces its ability to campaign against UKIP's message to British voters. Every penny UKIP takes from the EU is used for campaigning - It is not a rich party - money is always short. UKIP does not have big business to support it like the tories, or the unions like Labour - it is just members like me (and a £1.5 million donation from Paul Sykes).

We are not at war with the EU and the rules you are tenuously trying to apply are therefore not the same. You can metaphorise the relationship with the EU all you like but we are not at war with them. We may not like our tax being given to the EU but as a country we have made the decision to democratically hand sums of our money over and I am afraid if UKIP are taking every penny they can no matter how you dress it up they are seen to be feeding out of the trough. At least the rest put up some sort of pretence about earning their money for the common good of the European people.

I cannot stand people who try to defend the indefensible just on party lines to show "unity". It makes them look stupid and controlled. Your best bet rather than defend this reprehensible attitude of UKIP is to just keep quiet. If you think this pathetic argument will stand up to the electorate once UKIP have served their purpose then you can think again.

UKIP are a bunch of politicians. Politicians have in recent times been shown up to be in it for themselves. UKIP are politicians who pretend to be different yet they are feeding themselves out of the trough of taxpayers money just like the rest. You can make whatever feeble excuse you like but the electorate won't buy it.

[darmstadt]

The fact that the money originally came from the UK taxpayer is hardly relevant because it is where the money is now that is key - it is in the hands of the EU awaiting being wasted. If UKIP don't take it you can be sure it will be wasted on Bulgarian gay-friendly windfarms or some other crap, i.e. not benefiting the UK voters.

The ERASMUS+ project provides over 800,000,000 Euros for UK students to study abroad, presumably crap and doesn't benefit UK voters as under Ukip the UK won't be dealing with the EU anymore Would the UK government provide this money?

Although not much, under new EU laws roaming charges for mobile use in the EU are capped so unlike previously where you paid a fortuned while on holiday, now its a lot less: Roaming Tariffs - Digital Agenda for Europe - European Commission . However once the UK leave the EU then people with UK numbers can be charged the earth and there would be nothing they can do about it

School Milk Subsidy

There's a lot more but eurosceptics ignore that side of things instead they concentrate on 'Bulgarian gay-friendly windfarms'

[speling bee]

When Britain was fighting Germany in the war, would it have been regarded as sleazy and disgraceful if Britain sold off the parts of a shot-down Dornier bomber that crashed on British soil?

This illustrates one reason why I despise UKIP, even though I want the UK to leave the EU.

[DodgyAgent]

The ERASMUS+ project provides over 800,000,000 Euros for UK students to study abroad, presumably crap and doesn't benefit UK voters as under Ukip the UK won't be dealing with the EU anymore Would the UK government provide this money?

Although not much, under new EU laws roaming charges for mobile use in the EU are capped so unlike previously where you paid a fortuned while on holiday, now its a lot less: Roaming Tariffs - Digital Agenda for Europe - European Commission . However once the UK leave the EU then people with UK numbers can be charged the earth and there would be nothing they can do about it

School Milk Subsidy


There's a lot more but eurosceptics ignore that side of things instead they concentrate on 'Bulgarian gay-friendly windfarms'

So you are saying the UK is financially a net beneficiary of the EU? Even with all the bureaucrats taking their cut in administering the funds?

[KentPhilip]

We are not at war with the EU and the rules you are tenuously trying to apply are therefore not the same. You can metaphorise the relationship with the EU all you like but we are not at war with them. We may not like our tax being given to the EU but as a country we have made the decision to democratically hand sums of our money over and I am afraid if UKIP are taking every penny they can no matter how you dress it up they are seen to be feeding out of the trough. At least the rest put up some sort of pretence about earning their money for the common good of the European people.

I cannot stand people who try to defend the indefensible just on party lines to show "unity". It makes them look stupid and controlled. Your best bet rather than defend this reprehensible attitude of UKIP is to just keep quiet. If you think this pathetic argument will stand up to the electorate once UKIP have served their purpose then you can think again.

You might not regard yourself as being at war with the EU, but many others, both in UKIP and the electorate as a whole, do. We won't/can't use military force or commit criminal acts in our battle with them as you would in a traditional war, because these would be illegal, and we don't break the law. So it does not look like a "war". But it is one.

As a country we have NOT made the decision to hand over money to the EU, because all that the referendum in 1975 asked was whether we wanted to be in the common market, only. People have much better things they would rather the state spend the money on.

I'm not quite sure I understand you in your second paragraph, but all I can say is that UKIP are not pilfering the money to build duck houses with, or fund expensive lunches - every penny, almost, goes on printing leaflets, essential travel, newspaper adverts, booking village halls for campaigning meetings, and other related campaigning activities.

[speling bee]

You might not regard yourself as being at war with the EU, but many others, both in UKIP and the electorate as a whole, do. We won't/can't use military force or commit criminal acts in our battle with them as you would in a traditional war, because these would be illegal, and we don't break the law. So it does not look like a "war". But it is one.

As a country we have NOT made the decision to hand over money to the EU, because all that the referendum in 1975 asked was whether we wanted to be in the common market, only. People have much better things they would rather the state spend the money on.

Parliament has made all of these decisions (e.g. to hand over money) and continues to. And has the power at any point to stop handing over money to the EU. So, it's not really like a war at all, in any way. And you want this Parliament to have powers returned to it.

I'm all for withdrawal from the EU, but you're a nutjob.

[BrilloPad]

You might not regard yourself as being at war with the EU, but many others, both in UKIP and the electorate as a whole, do. We won't/can't use military force or commit criminal acts in our battle with them as you would in a traditional war, because these would be illegal, and we don't break the law. So it does not look like a "war". But it is one.

Why can't we just do what other countries in the EU do and just take the bits we like?

Is it UKIP policy to believe we are at war with the EU?

[DodgyAgent]

You might not regard yourself as being at war with the EU, but many others, both in UKIP and the electorate as a whole, do. We won't/can't use military force or commit criminal acts in our battle with them as you would in a traditional war, because these would be illegal, and we don't break the law. So it does not look like a "war". But it is one.

As a country we have NOT made the decision to hand over money to the EU, because all that the referendum in 1975 asked was whether we wanted to be in the common market, only. People have much better things they would rather the state spend the money on.

I'm not quite sure I understand you in your second paragraph, but all I can say is that UKIP are not pilfering the money to build duck houses with, or fund expensive lunches - every penny, almost, goes on printing leaflets, essential travel, newspaper adverts, booking village halls for campaigning meetings, and other related campaigning activities.

Not by any classification does your definition of our relationship with the EU mean war. I will add at this stage that I am a big supporter of what UKIP are trying to achieve. War is a terrible thing and you calling your campaign a "war" demeans the seriousness of war itself. You seem to think that just because you define your position within the EU as war you are morally entitled to plunder money from the EU. Let me tell you that you are not. Whatever the democratic limitations of our relationship with the EU are, successive UK governments elected by the british people within the rules of whatever constitution we have in the UK were legally entitled to sign the Maastrich and Lisbon treaties on behalf of the UK.

We voted to join the EU but that does not mean the electorate has to endorse every move the EU makes does it? I voted for the current conservative government but I haven't voted for some of the laws they have subsequently passed. According to your logic this removes their legitimacy as the party of government.

If what you are saying about what UKIP members are doing with whatever they are plundering from the EU is true then why don't they say so and itemise their expenditure accordingly?