would you like fries with that degree?

[Sysman]

Indeed. They're implementing the same policies in NL too now. The one hope I have is that this leads to a growth in, for want of a better phrase, 'open source/freeware education'.

I've just started dabbling in this online course stuff and I'm enjoying it. I wasn't initially bothered about the certificate side of it but well, why not? It's something to put on your CV and at $50 a go* it's not just good value for money but a way to encourage the open source/freeware education model**.

It's a feck sight cheaper than your Microsoft / Cisco / whoever certifications and if you pick the right subjects you'll get a taste of some leading edge research.

* USD 49 is Coursera's price for a certificate on their "Signature Track" system, which apparently gives online verification that you passed the course you say you did.
** over 20,000 students on one of the courses I am doing - dunno what percentage of folks pass and go for the certificates, but easy to see the potential income there.

[Sysman]

A large part of Comp Sci is descended from mathematical investigations in the early part of the 20th century, and predates the existence of practical computers and surprisingly little academic comp sci research deals with issues of practical computer or language implementation and usage.

This is one of the big problems with it as a subject for a vocational degree. How to be a computer programmer is not what it's about.

I have often suspected it's a bit different outside the UK but don't have any hard evidence to prove that.

Going back many years, every time we got a Comp Sci graduate we had to start with basics like input validation. That's the sort of stuff we needed in industry and as far as I could see, Comp Sci degrees weren't providing it. Code maintainability was a similar issue.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Some excellent arguments for not going to uni here Amazon.com: How To Make Millions Without A Degree eBook: Simon Dolan: Kindle Store

[zeitghost]

I honestly don't know what I'd do now. The thought of £50K of debt must be terrifying.

Even an HNC, dumbed down as it is, costs £9k/year these days.

I don't know what I'd have done either.

Though I do remember the course fees going up from £4 (yes, really, £4 for a year's tuition) to £140* after The OldLiebour got back in in 1974.

I was fortunate in having day release & an employer that paid for everything.

*Even after inflation that's only £1400 in our degraded 2014 poundlets.

[SpontaneousOrder]

I have often suspected it's a bit different outside the UK but don't have any hard evidence to prove that.

Going back many years, every time we got a Comp Sci graduate we had to start with basics like input validation. That's the sort of stuff we needed in industry and as far as I could see, Comp Sci degrees weren't providing it. Code maintainability was a similar issue.

Assuming the CompSci is similar to the SoftwareEng in this sense, the degree is literally a pointer in the right direction. They're trying to hire graduates at clientCo right now and can't seem to understand why the candidates being interviewed aren't doing very well. The thing is that the test they give, for a fresh graduate with no industry experience, is HARD.
What they really need is a graduate with at the very least a year's placement. The degree should only be considered, in my opinion, as an indicator - not a qualification (because presumably a qualification should show that you are qualified to actually DO something - not that you learned a few bits and pieces. It would be like having a qualification in 'Spanish' that meant that you knew a load of random Spanish words, but couldn't necessarily make any sentences out of them).

[original PM]

simply because universities are now profit centres it is in their best interests to get as many bums on seats and people to actually pass their degrees so their numbers look good

the fact that to do this has meant that the standard has actually dropped and is therefore of less value to an employer is neither here nor there.

[doodab]

Going back many years, every time we got a Comp Sci graduate we had to start with basics like input validation. That's the sort of stuff we needed in industry and as far as I could see, Comp Sci degrees weren't providing it. Code maintainability was a similar issue.

They were never designed to. Historically CS departments were an outgrowth of the maths faculty, and concrete implementation was seen as a loose end. Even something vaguely useful in the real world like designing and analysing an algorithm is an exercise in abstract maths, there is no need to actually implement an algorithm to prove it correct or analyse it's complexity.

[lilelvis2000]

Yeah. Labour wanted everyone to get a degree rather than start a business. Brill eh?
Obviously a degree is necessary for certain occupation. But why get a degree just for the sake of it? Seriously will having a arts degree get you anywhere?

Mind you a lot of the toffs running the joint have an arts degree. so. hmmm.

[Doggy Styles]

Yeah. Labour wanted everyone to get a degree rather than start a business. Brill eh?
Obviously a degree is necessary for certain occupation. But why get a degree just for the sake of it? Seriously will having a arts degree get you anywhere?

Indeed, children are shepherded down this route.

(However, I don't knock a proper arts degree that was taken without a job at the end of it. It would be sad if the sum of deeper human knowledge becomes distilled only into what is required for specific careers.)

Back to the main point, Poles and other foreigners come here and get jobs or start businesses because they have a hard-working or entrepreneurial mindset, not because they have a degree.

It makes sense to do a degree if you need it for your preferred career, or because you are very interested in a subject, but not because it is merely expected of you.

[quackhandle]

that is because a degree in Intepretive Peruvian Dance is actual worth less than the paper it is written on.

in addition to that why is spending 3 years copying someone else's work of any value?

I knew a girl who studied that, pure filth she was.

qh