UKIP Interview

[Mich the Tester]

....you aren't interested in debate you're only interested in complaining about being "smeared" and calling people idiots when they disagree with you. I'd rather not waste my time.

eurotwats, apparently

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...ml#post1939292

[vetran]

There also seems to be this persistent trait among UKIPers to declare that anyone who disagrees with them is somehow naive or being hoodwinked by the mainstream parties & their media lapdogs. Aside from being incredibly patronising and not winning you any friends, it's also utter bollocks.

Most people were and are just as cynical about the mainstream parties as any UKIPper, arguably more so. We just aren't taken in by Mr Farage's brand of "charm". We can see through that veneer quite easily and underneath that he's not any different to the rest of them. That leaves only his ideas which are frankly nothing more than rehashed mid 90s Tory euroskepticsm. I didn't agree with them then and I don't agree with them now.

You might also want to bear in mind that polls have shown the majority of UKIP's popular support is composed of less well to do ex-tory and labour voters who have failed at life and are looking for someone to blame. One might well describe such people as the "weak minded".

Only polls I have seen have shown UKIP supporters are older and therefore less likely to have a degree (because ~50% fewer people did degrees then). Poorer as they are more likely to be affected negatively by the EU and remember (sometimes too fondly) how it used to be before their towns weren't full of foreigners. Your interpretation of those figures seems a bit of a leap, mine might be as well.

However it looks like UKIP is imploding anyway as they seem unable to behave properly in the bright light of publicity. It does rather show how professional the other parties seem to be that they seem to keep a lid on their loonies.

[doodab]

Link?

It's no wonder the country is ****ed when it's full of people who are too ******* lazy to use google. It's been posted on here about a half a dozen times as well.

How UKIP voters compare

As you can see UKIP voters are primarily ex tory voters who earn on average less than labour voters. Disillusioned ex tories who haven't done well out of life, basically. They also tend to read the mail or express but regard themselves as left wing which rather implies that they aren't that familiar with the broader spectrum of political views i.e. they are somewhat naive.

[doodab]

Only polls I have seen have shown UKIP supporters are older and therefore less likely to have a degree (because ~50% fewer people did degrees then). Poorer as they are more likely to be affected negatively by the EU and remember (sometimes too fondly) how it used to be before their towns weren't full of foreigners. Your interpretation of those figures seems a bit of a leap, mine might be as well.

I'd also argue that older people ought to be further up the career ladder and hence you'd be expecting them to earn more, not less, than other people.

I'm not sure why you think they are more likely to be affected negatively by the EU than other people. I'd have thought if anyone is affected disproportionately by migration of low wage workers from the EU it's the young particularly given the problems with youth unemployment in the PIIGS

[vetran]

I'd also argue that older people ought to be further up the career ladder and hence you'd be expecting them to earn more, not less, than other people.

I'm not sure why you think they are more likely to be affected negatively by the EU than other people. I'd have thought if anyone is affected disproportionately by migration of low wage workers from the EU it's the young particularly given the problems with youth unemployment in the PIIGS

Your experience in your career is far from everyone else's experience. Many people don't climb the career ladder and stay at the bottom, or they climb and then due to ill health / redundancy / bad luck / addiction fall to the bottom again.

We are the blessed few that earn well above the average wage. Being replaced in your minimum wage job by a degree qualified Eastern European in your fifties is quite common.

[doodab]

Your experience in your career is far from everyone else's experience. Many people don't climb the career ladder and stay at the bottom, or they climb and then due to ill health / redundancy / bad luck / addiction fall to the bottom again.

That is to say they have failed at life, which is what I said in the first place. Apologies if the use of the word failed has negative connotations but I can't think of another phrase that sums it up.

I would point out that not everyone can "succeed" and I believe we need to construct a society where those who have "failed" can still live comfortably.

BTW, due to "ill health" I don't currently earn well above the average wage, although I do earn what I earn in less time than other people.

[alluvial]

That is to say they have failed at life, which is what I said in the first place. Apologies if the use of the word failed has negative connotations but I can't think of another phrase that sums it up.

I would point out that not everyone can "succeed" and I believe we need to construct a society where those who have "failed" can still live comfortably.

BTW, due to "ill health" I don't currently earn well above the average wage, although I do earn what I earn in less time than other people.

Oh that is so much bollocks.
Do you really think that everyone is able to climb the career ladder and reach the giddy heights of senior management?
Someone that leaves school, gets a job and successfully manages to remain in employment until retiring on a pension that allows him or her to live comfortably is not a failure.

[vetran]

That is to say they have failed at life, which is what I said in the first place. Apologies if the use of the word failed has negative connotations but I can't think of another phrase that sums it up.

I would point out that not everyone can "succeed" and I believe we need to construct a society where those who have "failed" can still live comfortably.

BTW, due to "ill health" I don't currently earn well above the average wage, although I do earn what I earn in less time than other people.

They may not consider they have failed in life, we had a security guard who had lived more fully than anyone of us could believe, he was however very happy to pootle along at work.

Most of our small scale non profit organisations are run by people that are not high earners but have succeeded far more in life that matters far more than you or I.

Scouts, Guides St Johns Ambulance etc troops are run by such people, they may be managed at a district area by 'achievers' but the people who turn up every week are the hard workers.

I have a Neighbour who works in a warehouse, he is involved in 3 major organisations, on his small salary he has bought a nice house raised 3 polite and well behaved kids and is a pillar of the community I doubt he has earnt over £20k (equivalent) in his life and has been made redundant about 4 times in his 40/50s.

[doodab]

Oh that is so much bollocks.
Do you really think that everyone is able to climb the career ladder and reach the giddy heights of senior management?

No, I don't. I would point out that we're frequently told that "anyone can succeed if they apply themselves enough" by the likes of dodgy though. I guess you would disagree with that statement just as much as I do.

Someone that leaves school, gets a job and successfully manages to remain in employment until retiring on a pension that allows him or her to live comfortably is not a failure.

Well, I'm terribly sorry, as I said I can't think of a better way to express the fact they haven't enjoyed vast material success. I do find it interesting that when one applies the same line of argument to counter those who say "anyone can succeed by being an entrepreneur" and suggests that we need to construct a society that treats such "normal" people more fairly one stands accused of being a lefty.

Seems like people want to have their cake and eat it.

[vetran]

!

No, I don't. I would point out that we're frequently told that "anyone can succeed if they apply themselves enough" by the likes of dodgy though. I guess you would disagree with that statement just as much as I do.



Well, I'm terribly sorry, as I said I can't think of a better way to express the fact they haven't enjoyed vast material success. I do find it interesting that when one applies the same line of argument to counter those who say "anyone can succeed by being an entrepreneur" and suggests that we need to construct a society that treats such "normal" people more fairly one stands accused of being a lefty.

Seems like people want to have their cake and eat it.

anyone != everyone.

The ones that do ok and work hard deserve to enjoy the fruit of their labours, those that don't try deserve the dry bread crumbs. We who were lucky (By birth or effort) can enjoy cake.