UKIP Vs Good Old fashioned self interest

[Zero Liability]

I don't really get the OP. I don't think the opposition to UKIP has anything at all to do with contractors being part of a "privileged elite", whatever that means. Have you really bought into the class warfare rhetoric the media bandies about relentlessly, whilst having its hands in the pockets of the most privileged elite of them all, the government?

There's plenty of people who could be contractors but aren't for any number of reasons, so it has bugger-all to do with "privilege". I too do not understand the opposition to UKIP by some individuals here, and the single-minded, even insane focus on it by the likes of trolls such as Spellin Bee or Peter Griffin, whose agenda is probably little more than provocation with what little imagination they possess.

Furthemore, UKIP is a libertarian, right-leaning party, so I don't see them preserving the status quo tax system if they can get away with it. That said, Westminster is filled with hollow promises, like the Lib-dems promising to abolish IR35.

I am all in favour of a referendum and exit from the EU. I'd like it very much if the EU was nothing but a free trade area, and little more, but that isn't its current trajectory.

[BlasterBates]

There is an assumption that if the UK left the EU it would trade it would keep exporting it's stuff. That probably isn't the case. If the UK did leave the EU it would have to export according to the rules that exist now. That would mean Japanese and Korean car manufacturers in the UK for example couldn't continue their model of building some of it Japan, some of it in the UK and exporting into the EU, as current rules would mean a 10% tariff, which would probably force the hand of the Japs and Koreans and they'd move their plants. Of course some might argue the EU would be forced to change the rule to suit the UK, but that means agreement from 26 different countries any one of whom could throw in a veto and scupper the entire deal, by the time has a deal it wants the manufacturers would be long gone.

I've chosen that as an example but there are many others as well. Finance is another a fair chunk of business would just simply move to Paris or Frankfurt to avoid having to deal with two different Financial Authorities. At the moment a German company can do a deal in London and doesn't have to think about it.

Scotland would almost certainly leave England but stay in the EU, and I suspect provide a convenient location for some manufacturers in the North East.

In the end the UK would end up like it was in the early 1970's with a moribund industry a falling pound and sh*te football team that never gets to the World cup.

[SpontaneousOrder]

The point is that if we leave the EU then you will either have to stop issuing visas to Indians or issue visas to the whole world including EU , as you cannot racially exclude East Europeans.

Aren't there special ties with India left over from the old empire days? I'm not sure where i'm remembering this from so perhaps there isn't. I just though that it was relatively easy for indians to work here compared to other nationalities.

[Mich the Tester]

The bile and hatred...UKIP is saying instead they see it through their own prism of self interest.

Let me get this straight; are you calling 'the right of self determination, freedom from the collective environments and freedom of movement of labour' a 'privileged entitlement'?

[doodab]

Let me get this straight; are you calling 'the right of self determination, freedom from the collective environments and freedom of movement of labour' a 'privileged entitlement'?

I often wonder if dodgy's underlying ideology is not somewhat pre-chartist.

[TheFaQQer]

I've found it very surprising too that 99.9% (that means, for the benefit of spelling bee, something like 'almost entirely' - like when your mum tells you that she almost entirely doesn't wish you had been just a trapped fart) of contractors here are raving socialists and wannabe despots.

There are 17126 members on CUK.

99.9% would make 17108 members who you describe as "raving socialists and wannabe despots". I'm not sure if you mean AND or OR in that statement, but I suspect that you'd struggle to name 100 out of the 17000 that you claim to be here.

[lukemg]

Problem with UKIP is simple, dilution of the conservative vote means more likelihood of the red pox getting back in by default.
Same will and is happening to UKIP as happened to the Green party. Major parties saw the way the wind was blowing and offered diluted versions of the Green policies alongside their mainstream policies and they were squeezed out of relevance.
Conservatives are already doing this but might take another election cycle to finish off.

[DodgyAgent]

I don't really get the OP. I don't think the opposition to UKIP has anything at all to do with contractors being part of a "privileged elite", whatever that means. Have you really bought into the class warfare rhetoric the media bandies about relentlessly, whilst having its hands in the pockets of the most privileged elite of them all, the government?

There's plenty of people who could be contractors but aren't for any number of reasons, so it has bugger-all to do with "privilege". I too do not understand the opposition to UKIP by some individuals here, and the single-minded, even insane focus on it by the likes of trolls such as Spellin Bee or Peter Griffin, whose agenda is probably little more than provocation with what little imagination they possess.

Furthemore, UKIP is a libertarian, right-leaning party, so I don't see them preserving the status quo tax system if they can get away with it. That said, Westminster is filled with hollow promises, like the Lib-dems promising to abolish IR35.

I am all in favour of a referendum and exit from the EU. I'd like it very much if the EU was nothing but a free trade area, and little more, but that isn't its current trajectory.

Where an argument resorts to scare mongering (unsupported by any fact or example), hysteria, smearing and liberal , lazy use of the catch all word "racist" (anyone who criticises a group or individual from another country) then one simply has to follow the money to uncover the true motivation behind what people say and do.

Not all contractors are like this but there is a striking pattern that suggests the ones who are so afraid of UKIP are the ones freely and profitably plying their trade across the EU. If they were a little more honest and simply say "we do not want UKIP because they are a threat to our gravy train" then maybe their stance would be respected.

[Mich the Tester]

...freely and profitably plying their trade across the EU. If they were a little more hones and simply say "we do not want UKIP because they are a threat to our gravy train" then maybe their stance would be respected.

Since when has a privately owned company selling to a stock market listed manufacturer been a 'gravy train'?

And lets return to my last question; are you calling 'the right of self determination, freedom from the collective environments and freedom of movement of labour' a 'privileged entitlement'?

And another question; seeing as I stayed in Holland because I met my girlfriend here, is the freedom to fall in love with someone who happens to hold a different nationality a 'privileged entitlement' too? Do you want people ask the government for permission before falling in love?

[DodgyAgent]

Let me get this straight; are you calling 'the right of self determination, freedom from the collective environments and freedom of movement of labour' a 'privileged entitlement'?

I am making the point that you people are very privileged and enjoy substantial rewards from the policies of the EU. Judging by the hysterical non arguments you are making about UKIP who are essentially made up of people like you (who work in the private sector - self employed -small business - as opposed to lawyers bankers public sector workers) I can only conclude that you see your rights to enrich yourselves within the structures of the EU as sacrosanct and more important than anything else the EU does/doesn't do. UKIP is a threat to this way of life to you and must be stopped at all costs even if there may be a point to what they are trying to achieve or what people who support them are trying to achieve.

You don't live on the council estates where immigrants live. You only see the UKIP problem when some Romanian tries to sell you a big issue and maybe obstructing your path into Peter Jones. If you just said "look , I am making a nice pile out of this EU thing - we only have one life I do not give a sh*t about how it affects everyone else... screw UKIP" then we ,ight have some respect for the argument.