One more reason to leave the EU

[xoggoth]

Polish migration is permanent and how much will turn out to be transitory or circular. Poland's economic growth would suggest the pull factors over there are growing and the trend may stop or slowly reverse. Polish culture may go through a similar secularisation to Irish, Italian or Spanish culture leading to a similar fall in birth rates.

Will the many who do go back home have contributed enough to the economy to pay for their kids' free schooling I wonder?

I don't disagree that sooner or later birth rates among minorities will fall, just as eventually they will all integrate and become part of a more uniform society. But this takes decades or even centuries, why must we keep recreating the same problems over and over again?

[SaltyLevels]

There was an interesting article somewhere, regarding the future of mankind in that eventually we'll all (the educated ones) end up the same colour and far taller (hairless bodies too) through centuries of racial interbreeding.

The underclass will be small and look like trolls

I hope by then we've got over the parochial attitudes we currently have.

[Mich the Tester]

Will the many who do go back home have contributed enough to the economy to pay for their kids' free schooling I wonder?

I don't disagree that sooner or later birth rates among minorities will fall, just as eventually they will all integrate and become part of a more uniform society. But this takes decades or even centuries, why must we keep recreating the same problems over and over again?

Well, you see it as if we're creating problems, but I see migration as largely inevitable and very difficult to control and therefore it's more practical to foresee some migration flows and manage them. I see continual attempts at controlling migration, and continual attempts failing laughably, because there´s not attention paid to the main pull and push factors. Perhaps that's because we consider ourselves too civilised to simply shoot people at the borders or let them drown in the sea, and I hope we stay that way. But then, while there are huge parts of the world where people like in desperate poverty, and we live in relative wealth it's going to continue. Look at the story in the beeb today; BBC News - Spain Melilla migrants: On a hill, in sight of Europe Huge triple fences can't stop people who are desperate for some economic opportunity. In fact I was amused and could almost raise a round of applause for this bit;

' Some of them use the first fence on the Moroccan side as a catapult, to hurl themselves on to the third fence, from where they can jump down into Melilla.

The push factors from their side are simply so strong they outweigh the risks or anything we do to reduce the pull factors. Maybe, just maybe, this is where foreign aid can be used for our own benefit. Or maybe it's where managed circular migration can ease pressures, especially seeing as circular migration is a very common and accepted practise in the cultures many migrants come from.

I'm not saying migration doesn't bring problems, but the current approach to dealing with it looks to me a bit like the Russian Tsars sitting in their palaces and ordering a few more guards to stand at the gate and a few builders to build the walls a bit higher, while the huddled masses outside become more and more desperate and before long, aggressive. Just blocking out migrants is a head-in-sand approach. We have to be a lot smarter.

[doodab]

Well, you see it as if we're creating problems, but I see migration as largely inevitable and very difficult to control and therefore it's more practical to foresee some migration flows and manage them. I see continual attempts at controlling migration, and continual attempts failing laughably, because there´s not attention paid to the main pull and push factors. Perhaps that's because we consider ourselves too civilised to simply shoot people at the borders or let them drown in the sea, and I hope we stay that way. But then, while there are huge parts of the world where people like in desperate poverty, and we live in relative wealth it's going to continue. Look at the story in the beeb today; BBC News - Spain Melilla migrants: On a hill, in sight of Europe Huge triple fences can't stop people who are desperate for some economic opportunity. In fact I was amused and could almost raise a round of applause for this bit;
The push factors from their side are simply so strong they outweigh the risks or anything we do to reduce the pull factors. Maybe, just maybe, this is where foreign aid can be used for our own benefit. Or maybe it's where managed circular migration can ease pressures, especially seeing as circular migration is a very common and accepted practise in the cultures many migrants come from.

I'm not saying migration doesn't bring problems, but the current approach to dealing with it looks to me a bit like the Russian Tsars sitting in their palaces and ordering a few more guards to stand at the gate and a few builders to build the walls a bit higher, while the huddled masses outside become more and more desperate and before long, aggressive. Just blocking out migrants is a head-in-sand approach. We have to be a lot smarter.

That's a really insightful post. Good points made.