More Farage wisdom

[Gittins Gal]

Of course! So you then invade part of a sovereign country. That is admirable.

Turn it in its head and do you honestly think the USA would not have invaded if it was their only cold water naval base and 80% of the population spoke American English and the US was viewed by that majority as being the motherland?

Seriously, there are some shocking double standards at work here.

[Mich the Tester]

Mich, a lot of your posts talk about the economic reasons for remaining in the EU but what you fail to address is the undemocratic nature of the EU.

I mean, I'm sure I don't need to mention the way referenda have been repeatedly held in member states until they give the right answer. And as for the lies. The Treaty of Lisbon in no way resembles a constitution we were told. Yeah right. Ditto there will be no European Defence Force - again, we all know where that's headed.

Screw the economics - I'd rather be free and live in a sovereign nation where the government of the day is accountable to the people.

And Mos, once again, this is nothing to do with racism. Immigration isn't even at the top of my list of priorities.

What is at the top is the integrity of the democratic process and in that respect the EU is inherently flawed and UKIP offer the only credible alternative to our continuing membership.

To some extent I agree; I don't like the whole EU parliament thing, I would prefer the free market agreement without that, but then arguably that would be less democratic. As for referenda being held time an time again until the 'right answer' comes out, I'm not personally a fan of referenda because they tend ot exclue the middle ground, but if you're going to hold them then I don't see the problem with repeating them as long as a similar question is being asked; in fact, repeating them reflects the fact that opinions change, younger voters replace older voters, some people might be persuaded the other way, and some people are perhaps too stupid to actually give the answer they believe in more than once.

As for the 'credible alternative', I don't believe so. At the moment you have the certainty of being a member of a huge free trade zone in Europe; what UKIP are offering is 'we'll try and negotiate a free trade deal'. That's not a credible alternative for certainty.

[MicrosoftBob]

Imagine if he had said black or yellow or brown? What he should have done is used the word British, he's just showing his bigotry towards those who don't fit his ideal...

But he didn't, surely you're showing bigotry by trying to smear him based on something you think he could have said based on your own prejudices

[darmstadt]

Mich, a lot of your posts talk about the economic reasons for remaining in the EU but what you fail to address is the undemocratic nature of the EU.

I mean, I'm sure I don't need to mention the way referenda have been repeatedly held in member states until they give the right answer. And as for the lies. The Treaty of Lisbon in no way resembles a constitution we were told. Yeah right. Ditto there will be no European Defence Force - again, we all know where that's headed.

Screw the economics - I'd rather be free and live in a sovereign nation where the government of the day is accountable to the people.

And Mos, once again, this is nothing to do with racism. Immigration isn't even at the top of my list of priorities.

What is at the top is the integrity of the democratic process and in that respect the EU is inherently flawed and UKIP offer the only credible alternative to our continuing membership.

Explain how its undemocratic (you'll find in a previous post how I've explained that its not really)? You bang on about unelected officials which is a populist stance thrown out by uneducated people which is patently untrue and and yet you won't bang on about the unelected officials (and businessmen) running your own country. If people got off of their arses and actually did some research instead of listening to the pub bore or reading tripe media then they might be quite surprised at what they find out.

"Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world."

[Mich the Tester]

Turn it in its head and do you honestly think the USA would not have invaded if it was their only cold water naval base and 80% of the population spoke American English and the US was viewed by that majority as being the motherland?

Seriously, there are some shocking double standards at work here.

Erm, yes, but this wasn't the USA invading their only cold water naval base. Anyway perhaps the USA does a better job of keeping locals happy in the places where they have permanent bases.

[MicrosoftBob]

Explain how its undemocratic (you'll find in a previous post how I've explained that its not really)? You bang on about unelected officials which is a populist stance thrown out by uneducated people which is patently untrue and and yet you won't bang on about the unelected officials (and businessmen) running your own country. If people got off of their arses and actually did some research instead of listening to the pub bore or reading tripe media then they might be quite surprised at what they find out.

Who elected José Manuel Barroso and how can we as UK citizens remove him ?

[Old Greg]

Mich, a lot of your posts talk about the economic reasons for remaining in the EU but what you fail to address is the undemocratic nature of the EU.

I mean, I'm sure I don't need to mention the way referenda have been repeatedly held in member states until they give the right answer. And as for the lies. The Treaty of Lisbon in no way resembles a constitution we were told. Yeah right. Ditto there will be no European Defence Force - again, we all know where that's headed.

Screw the economics - I'd rather be free and live in a sovereign nation where the government of the day is accountable to the people.

And Mos, once again, this is nothing to do with racism. Immigration isn't even at the top of my list of priorities.

What is at the top is the integrity of the democratic process and in that respect the EU is inherently flawed and UKIP offer the only credible alternative to our continuing membership.

I'm mostly in agreement except for the bit in bold. UKIP don't offer a credible (or perhaps I should say attractive). I'm all in favour of leaving the EU, but UKIP stand for other tings as well - this weird 1950's pastiche of a socially conservative Britain with a probable wiping out of worker protections as well.

It is not enough (for me) to say simply In or Out of the EU. I want to know what Out of the EU means.

If it means paying a load of cash across like Switzerland does, we need to cost that. Farage talks about the current costs of membership as if it's a clear saving on exit.

When we leave the EU, what does it mean for all the regulations that restrict business practices / protect worker rights depending on your point of view? I don't want to move from the tyranny of the EU to the wholescale destruction of workers' rights. Nor do I think it's fine to say we have a referendum on leaving the EU and then leave it to Parliament to decide what the 'new settlement' is.

What I think is needed is for Parliament to set out a 'new settlement' in terms of what EU regulations will be removed, retained, replaced and what they will be replaced with. Then we can have a referendum to see what we get instead of the EU.

[darmstadt]

But he didn't, surely you're showing bigotry by trying to smear him based on something you think he could have said based on your own prejudices

I don't think he could have said it, he did say it. If he wants to be taken seriously on the world stage then he needs to think before he opens his mouth. Now imagine if he had uttered that phrase in deepest South or East London or any other conurbation where the majority of working class people are not white? Admittedly PC, of which Farage is no fan of, has caused this thinking and I'm sure that many of us, without thinking use phrases that would be thought of as, shall we say 'racist' or 'sexist' or...whatever but if you're addressing a nation then you have to address the whole group of people.

[Old Greg]

Turn it in its head and do you honestly think the USA would not have invaded if it was their only cold water naval base and 80% of the population spoke American English and the US was viewed by that majority as being the motherland?

Seriously, there are some shocking double standards at work here.

I think Putin and Farage are the men for you then. Anyway, I don't have double standards. And some of your facts are wrong. But I doubt that will worry you.

[MicrosoftBob]

I don't think he could have said it, he did say it. If he wants to be taken seriously on the world stage then he needs to think before he opens his mouth. Now imagine if he had uttered that phrase in deepest South or East London or any other conurbation where the majority of working class people are not white? Admittedly PC, of which Farage is no fan of, has caused this thinking and I'm sure that many of us, without thinking use phrases that would be thought of as, shall we say 'racist' or 'sexist' or...whatever but if you're addressing a nation then you have to address the whole group of people.

Where's the quote where he mentioned black or yellow or brown immigration then ?