More Farage wisdom

[Old Greg]

That's exactly what most Germans used to say in the 1930s, as they gradually and unwittingly voted themselves out of a democracy ..

No they didn't. The Nazis seized power.

[Mich the Tester]

and if a majority voted 'yes', would they bother with another vote then?

I'd find it very hard to believe you think they conceivably would.

So in that event a large chunk of democracy would be gone for good.

This is a fair point, but it doesn't exclude people from voting 'no' twice. Anyway, personally I am not a big fan of referenda, but for other reasons than this one.

[Ticktock]

The queen is the head of state, not a law. In a democracy we expect the head of state to have a democratic mandate. This is the critique, which I share, of Barroso's position.

Why on earth would anyone object to a head of state having a democratic mandate, and for the time being, I'm sure the queen would win, so don't panic about that.

Because we don't vote for the civil service, and the Royal Family are little more than civil servants, following the advice and the wishes of Parliament. They are wheeled out to win inwards investment in terms of business, tourism, charity, etc.

The Queen may be nominal head of state, but personally I think we're better off having a powerless head of state and being ruled by the collective will of Parliament, rather than having a powerful individual ruler such as a president.

[OwlHoot]

The queen is the head of state, not a law. ...

Constitutionally, the Crown in Parliament _is_ the law (besides sovereignty they have opted to surrender to the EU).

[sasguru]

An interesting question, I'd like to see an answer too as I know why it works for me but not for many of those here, strange...

The answer to that is simple.
UKIP's voter base comes mainly from older males in the socio-economic groups C and D according to the latest polling i.e. poorly-educated older men.
This group feels left behind by globalisation and its benefits which they see all around them but which they feel they are not a part of.
Now if I was part of this group and I was struggling in the UK I would simply move to somewhere like Germany where there is work and the benefits are far more generous than the UK and where English people are generally liked and welcomed and where the beer and football culture is very similar.
But they don't want/can't do this which suggests an insularity and xenophobia.
You can't blame these people , it's the fault of the elite.
The elite told the British working class for centuries that they were "uber alles" - now they're finding out that the reality is that they aren't.
UKIP's false claim is that they can go back to being "uber alles" - that is their great attraction to the hard of thinking.

[Old Greg]

Because we don't vote for the civil service, and the Royal Family are little more than civil servants, following the advice and the wishes of Parliament. They are wheeled out to win inwards investment in terms of business, tourism, charity, etc.

The Queen may be nominal head of state, but personally I think we're better off having a powerless head of state and being ruled by will of Parliament, rather than having a powerful individual ruler such as a president.

Who said anything about a powerful head of state. An elected head of state could have exactly the same powers as currently, but let's have a vote. Or... if they are the same as civil servants, are you suggesting that they should apply for jobs and be promoted up through the ranks of the royal family branch on the civil service? Facetious of me, of course, but election or job application is how you get into a high ranking office.

[Old Greg]

The answer to that is simple.
UKIP's voter base comes mainly from older males in the socio-economic groups C and D according to the latest polling i.e. poorly-educated older men.
This group feels left behind by globalisation and its benefits which they see all around them but which they feel they are not a part of.
Now if I was part of this group and I was struggling in the UK I would simply move to somewhere like Germany where there is work and the benefits are far more generous than the UK and where English people are generally liked and welcomed and where the beer and football culture is very similar.
But they don't want/can't do this which suggests an insularity and xenophobia.
You can't blame these people , it's the fault of the elite.
The elite told the British working class for centuries that they were "uber alles" - now they're finding out that the reality is that they aren't.
UKIP's false claim is that they can go back to being "uber alles" - that is their great attraction to the hard of thinking.




















(I believe it works quite well for a certain Mr. Farage as well but we won't go there)

[/QUOTE]

What we are seeing is the unwinding of the competitive advantages that rich countries had during the colonial and immediate post-colonial period. Factory workers can no longer command relatively high wages and work benefits.

[Ticktock]

Who said anything about a powerful head of state. An elected head of state could have exactly the same powers as currently, but let's have a vote. Or... if they are the same as civil servants, are you suggesting that they should apply for jobs and be promoted up through the ranks of the royal family branch on the civil service? Facetious of me, of course, but election or job application is how you get into a high ranking office.

Would they have anywhere near as much value in the job they do if they were Johnny Nobody who won an election / passed a job interview, or is the effectiveness of their job intrinsically linked to the fact that they are a hereditary line harking back to the traditions of the middle ages and before?

[sasguru]

What we are seeing is the unwinding of the competitive advantages that rich countries had during the colonial and immediate post-colonial period. Factory workers can no longer command relatively high wages and work benefits.

Quite.
What we do with the thicko class is the great question of the economic age.
Germany seems to be the only Western country that has succeeded in keeping them occupied, but even this may change in the future with increasing automisation.

[Old Greg]

Would they have anywhere near as much value in the job they do if they were Johnny Nobody who won an election / passed a job interview, or is the effectiveness of their job intrinsically linked to the fact that they are a hereditary line harking back to the traditions of the middle ages and before?

A great question! And how do we resolve such important questions in a democracy?