On the bench - keep warchest to pay salary or splunk it all on dividendand claim JSA?

[mudskipper]

+1 Agree, I really don't see why people are responding with such vitriol, claim or don't claim, its your choice...

I think there's only been a couple of posts that have actually had a go at him for claiming.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

No-one sits you down in the chair, points a gun at your head, and says "Dammit - read every one of our posts or we'll blow you away"

There's even an ignore function I believe. Ignore us. Fine by us. It just seems so obvious - put us on ignore and never see our posts again!

[Ticktock]

On a more serious note: if you have money in the business (beyond CT obligations etc.) and make yourself redundant, do the Job Centre not say that you've deliberately made yourself unemployed, or do you tell them that the Ltd and you are different legal entities so in fact it's the Ltd that has made you unemployed?

The easy answer is that you don't make yourself redundant. Instead you are laid off - the same as happens in manufacturing when orders are lost. Basically, if work comes in then you are brought back in to work and paid, but otherwise you're on the bench.

[Old Greg]

The easy answer is that you don't make yourself redundant. Instead you are laid off - the same as happens in manufacturing when orders are lost. Basically, if work comes in then you are brought back in to work and paid, but otherwise you're on the bench.

Have you not still deliberately given up employment - assuming there is money in the Ltd? Do people say to the Job Centre 'I've got 50k in the Ltd but no work coming in so I've laid myself off'?

And presumably your job seeking activities on JSA would be for yourself, not business seeking activities for your Ltd, because that would be working for your Ltd and you're not working? How does that pan out?

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Worked with a contractor who makes me about how he lives his life. I have 6-7 months warchest available to me and I don't feel this is enough (will be comfortable around the 12 months mark). The guy's business and personal accounts are empty, VAT overdue, Corp Tax overdue, car finance payments of > £600/month, new massive mortgage, significantly older than me and so relaxed.

Surely contractors need to work hard to save in the good times and make hay while the sun shines.... I look at my warchest and don't think I have done this well enough but then I see how other guys live and I realise I am not all that bad actually. JSA shouldn't even be thinkable or else you might as well go permie and forget about contracting! What's the point in being a contractor if you have to end up claiming JSA?!

Just saying like.....

[psychocandy]

On a more serious note: if you have money in the business (beyond CT obligations etc.) and make yourself redundant, do the Job Centre not say that you've deliberately made yourself unemployed, or do you tell them that the Ltd and you are different legal entities so in fact it's the Ltd that has made you unemployed?

Ah serious time :-)

Its a grey area and they don't understand it all totally I don't think. Last time they never even asked about the ltd company. But I have heard of people being told to use the company bank account money - even the stuff allocated for VAT and CT which is just nuts.

In terms of making yourself redundant its not quite like that. Its more like a laid off due to lack of work (which is true) which is allowable. Confuses me a bit.

In terms of legal entities, yes, I tell them the truth. They will ask for employers name and address and then notice its the same as your personal address. But I tell I am an employee and my employer is/was ltd company. Usually then they'll ask so you're self-employed to which I'll say no I'm an employee of ltd of which I am director.

But they don't really get it so YMMV with different jobcentres like I said. As I said before, last time I had a letter addressed to me at ltd company asking to confirm that me (the person) had been laid off and not sacked. Did think of getting mrs to sign it (as fellow director) but just did it myself in the end.

There was one person at jobcentre who had seen this before. I had a conversation with them about the rights and wrongs and legal etc. They told me that ANYONE be they directors of ltd companies or self-employed can claim JSA if they have a down-turn in work (which is what no contract is).

Of course, you have to be below the max savings limit, and have paid NI for the past two years (which most will have). Chances of getting anything more than contrib based JSA is nil if you've got a partner who earns more than about £10K. I was surprised at this - i.e. how little family income can be before you get anything else.

Finally, you have to be available for work. BUT the important thing is the rules are you can look for your normal work for, I think, 6 months. In reality, most of the jobcente staff know the score and leave you alone. You're supposed to fill in a crappy form detailing all your work finding activities every two weeks. I just printed out my spreadsheet with contracts applied and they never asked me after the first time - but I guess this is to weed out the claimants who really just cant be arsed.

As for the JC staff, found it you're polite and honest with them they're as good as gold - probably due to spending most of the day dealing with scrotes. But theres no chance they'll phone you and tell you you've got to take a shelf stacking job at ASDA. They're not that dull.

What happens after 6 months - dunno. I guess all bets are off then depends to a certain amount on how your personal advisor feels. If you can convince them that you're really going to get a contract soon then I guess they'll go for it but they might ask you to lower your sights a little.

[Ticktock]

Have you not still deliberately given up employment - assuming there is money in the Ltd? Do people say to the Job Centre 'I've got 50k in the Ltd but no work coming in so I've laid myself off'?

And presumably your job seeking activities on JSA would be for yourself, not business seeking activities for your Ltd, because that would be working for your Ltd and you're not working? How does that pan out?

I haven't looked into it at any depth.
Do manufacturing companies who lay people off only do so after emptying their bank account, or when they realise they have no work for their employees to actually do?
As for work seeking - I think the general rule for those laid off is that you seek work for yourself, and in the meantime your company should be looking for orders (contracts) so that they can call you back into work. In our cases, that would mean you should be seeking any type of work (not just contracts), and then separately your Ltd (you as director) should be seeking contracts to send you in on as the representative. Whether this is how the Job Centre sees things, or whether they think you're OK only looking for contract work, I don't know.

[Old Greg]

This message is hidden because psychocandy is on your ignore list.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Shouldn't that be in a boomed thread?

[Old Greg]

I haven't looked into it at any depth.
Do manufacturing companies who lay people off only do so after emptying their bank account, or when they realise they have no work for their employees to actually do?
As for work seeking - I think the general rule for those laid off is that you seek work for yourself, and in the meantime your company should be looking for orders (contracts) so that they can call you back into work. In our cases, that would mean you should be seeking any type of work (not just contracts), and then separately your Ltd (you as director) should be seeking contracts to send you in on as the representative. Whether this is how the Job Centre sees things, or whether they think you're OK only looking for contract work, I don't know.

Perhaps you're correct. But I'm surprised that if you have say £100k in the Ltd account, you can so separate the same individual's Director and employee roles to say that you haven't deliberately made yourself unemployed. It's a bit sad really. I support the welfare state as a safety net, but I guess there are ways of dodging around the small print. It rankles a little because we want the considerable benefits of incorporation when it comes to tax, but can wriggle out of the responsibilities of being a director / employee to get round the JSA system. Still, worse things happen at sea.