UKIP Voting profile

[sasguru]

In the way they paint a simplistic caricature of reality, anything else is of course 'prejudice'.

For example
Immigration: All parties pretend it's great, only positive, when in reality it's complex and sometimes has negative externalities on society CON/LAB/LIB all the same on this issue.

Only differentiation is on minor caveats.

When they do differ e.g. welfare bill, they confuse the debate with nonsense. e.g. Confusing jobseekers with economically inactive.

Here's the official Conservative policy on immigration:

The Conservative Party | Policy | Where we stand | Immigration

I can't see where they say its "...great, only positive..."?

The fact that they're putting (or trying) to put barriers up suggest they don't think so?

[Flashman]

What does the state do for them that it didn't do in the past?

Its not the reality its the attitude. No personal responsibility.

Problem in society? Must be a state solution. Involved in petty crime? Not your fault. Government must provide Social workers, youth workers,

No qualifications? No training? Is that down to you? No the Government must provide apprenticeships. Nowhere to live? State housing. No job? Government benefits. Can't afford childcare? Government crèche's.

The State will provide. The people running the show just need your vote occasionally and all will be well....

[Flashman]

Here's the official Conservative policy on immigration:

The Conservative Party | Policy | Where we stand | Immigration

I can't see where they say its "...great, only positive..."?

The fact that they're putting (or trying) to put barriers up suggest they don't think so?

I voted for the Conservative Party expectingthem to drastically reduce immigration. This never happened.

Why was that ? 1. They were lying. 2. They don't know how the system works. I don't know which is the more worrying reason.

[ZARDOZ]

Here's the official Conservative policy on immigration:

The Conservative Party | Policy | Where we stand | Immigration

I can't see where they say its "...great, only positive..."?

The fact that they're putting (or trying) to put barriers up suggest they don't think so?

Trying to be all things to all people

"BENEFITS OF IMMIGRATION

Let's start with being open.

The British people are fair-minded - and I want them to feel they can be honest about what they think about this subject.

Here's what I think.

Our country has benefited immeasurably from immigration"


Who said that?
David Cameron. Could have been Ed Milliband OR Nick Clegg

[Mich the Tester]

Its not the reality its the attitude. No personal responsibility.

Problem in society? Must be a state solution. Involved in petty crime? Not your fault. Government must provide Social workers, youth workers,

No qualifications? No training? Is that down to you? No the Government must provide apprenticeships. Nowhere to live? State housing. No job? Government benefits. Can't afford childcare? Government crèche's.

The State will provide. The people running the show just need your vote occasionally and all will be well....

But the state doesn't provide student grants any more, it has spent many years tightening up requirements for young people that haven't worked much to get benefits, lots of young workers are living with their parents, etcetera.

I really don't see what the state does for young people today that it didn't do 10,20 or 30 years ago. In fact I think it probably does less for them.

[Mich the Tester]

I voted for the Conservative Party expectingthem to drastically reduce immigration. This never happened.

Then you should have found out what they were saying before voting for them.

[sasguru]

TBH, it's quite dull every time this political debate comes up to have the same old clichés and hoary untruths coming up:

"we used to live in a democracy" - oh yeah, when particularly?
"all the main parties are the same" - seems to me the Tories have tried to bring change to education, immigration, the economy and other issue with partial success - partial because of having to be in a coalition but mainly because the problems they inherited are so severe.
But the most stupid belief of all is that "UKIP will make everything better" - if you believe that, I've got London bridge to sell to you

[mos]

I think a points based system would be most beneficial. "The do the jobs we won't do" argument is morally bankrupt.

I detest "do the jobs we won't do" argument which not only is incredibly racist but also is unsuitable in the context of EU. Furthermore it actually enforces the spin which UKiP puts on the 'bad' (read European) immigration issue.

No, I do not believe in the point based system, because It was, is and probably always will be abused through falsification of education certificates, bank statements and so on. It will results in the negative selection favouring crooks and it will most likely create environment in which black markets flourish. Improvement of border controls and identification of forged/stolen identity documents is far more pressing at the moment. That is my opinion anyway, but you do not have to trust my word. Listen to what the former head of UK border agency Tony Smith has to say.

[Mich the Tester]

Trying to be all things to all people

Good. If you're campaigning to run the country then you have to appeal to a lot of different people and demonstrate you're going to try and run the country for the good of every citizen, and not just those who fit your demographic.

[sasguru]

I voted for the Conservative Party expectingthem to drastically reduce immigration. This never happened.

Why was that ? 1. They were lying. 2. They don't know how the system works. I don't know which is the more worrying reason.

Seems like they drastically reduced non-EU immigration.
You can't really reduce EU immigration without breaking agreements, you can only postpone it/make it tougher to access benefits, which they've done.