The official "World War ]i[" thread

[suityou01]

The markets seem to think this is a foregone conclusion

Ukraine worries intensify flight to safety | Reuters

(Reuters) - Heightened tensions between the West and Russia ahead of Ukraine's weekend referendum in Crimea pushed world stocks to their lowest in more than a month on Friday and left investors scurrying into safe-haven gold and bonds.

Then again the Russian troops gathered all along Ukraine's eastern border is also another indicator.

Nato airborne patrols along Poland/Ukraine/Belarus borders is just common sense, but again is a pointer.

And the fact that there were deaths in Donetsk last night should be enough of a reason for Russia to "protect" Crimea, and I think eastern Ukraine. For starters.

[Ticktock]

Oh dear...

1. The headline misses the word "some". My first reading was "he thinks Putin has the law on his side", not "he thinks the law isn't totally against Putin". A small point, and down to interpretation.

2. "America has a right of secession and Crimea should have it too". Really? So Texas is allowed to secede from the US? Last time that was suggested it was quickly shot down. Besides, unfortunately that's not the way the world works - a law in one country is not automatically the law worldwide. The Ukrainian constitution does allow for Crimea to secede, and even lays out the process for this to happen. This is not being followed. Instead the Russians have moved in, taken control, flooded the area with propoganda, squelched dissent and now allow a referendum with no international monitoring.

3. "Russia could accuse America of occupying Cuba because it, too, holds a lease on the land around the Guantanamo Bay prison." So ignoring the point that US troops in Cuba are to be found in the areas leased to the US government, whereas Russian troops are to be found all over Crimea, not just in the areas leased to them. The US have not found a few pro-Americans and installed them into government in Cuba, stopped Cuban TV and started showing US TV, etc, etc.

Please, looking at the words on a page is not the same as reading them.

[suityou01]

Thanks for your feedback. You can hold the gratuitous sarcasm and nastiness if you like.

I'll get back to you on the points you raise, but reading the words takes time. I have to move my lips and everything.

[AtW]

Paranoia leads Vladimir Putin to the point of no return - Telegraph

[doodab]

Paranoia leads Vladimir Putin to the point of no return - Telegraph

Perhaps we had best hope he's right and there is a plot to overthrow him. And hope it works. He's a very scary man.

[suityou01]

Perhaps we had best hope he's right and there is a plot to overthrow him. And hope it works. He's a very scary man.

Question for you. What do you think the phrase "In it for the long haul" means?

Given that he has "checkmated" the west over Crimea, and it will be a peaceful annexing, then the troops can go home for tea. What could happen after?

[doodab]

Question for you. What do you think the phrase "In it for the long haul" means?

In what context?

I'd think he means to take Crimea for the long term, not simply use it as leverage over wider Ukrainian politics as some have suggested. Clearly he's not going to put up with further NATO enlargement, it's a threat to Russia's and ultimately his security. It's quite possible he'll look to annex more of Ukraine if he thinks he can get away with it, but I don't think he has the popular support he has in Crimea. Moldova has a separatist enclave as well. I doubt he'd try and cross the whole of southern Ukraine to link it all up into one big Russian black sea enclave, I don't think the build up points to that but you never know, he could go for a coastal strip including Odessa and it would cut the Ukrainians off from the sea which would be a good strategic move. Belarus are no doubt going to come under some pressure to deal with their own pro-Euro opposition as well.

Moldova alarmed over 'contagious' separatism in Ukraine's Crimea | Reuters

I did suggest that a split in the Ukraine was a possible outcome of the Maiden protestors getting their way some time before Yanukovich was deposed.

[AtW]

I did suggest that a split in the Ukraine was a possible outcome of the Maiden protestors getting their way some time before Yanukovich was deposed.

There was always a split, like there is one in UK between Labour and Cons, and in USA between Dems and Reps. The difference is that neighbour (Russia) influences it with money and guns, and now put armed forces on the ground - some of the Nazi generals got hanged just for mere fact of planning Barbarossa - aggressive attack on other countries, THAT in itself was enough back then.

[doodab]

There was always a split, like there is one in UK between Labour and Cons, and in USA between Dems and Reps.

Yes but not a two separate countries split which is what I was suggesting.

[AtW]

Yes but not a two separate countries split which is what I was suggesting.

There is no large split at the moment, in fact after invasion a lot of people in Ukraine turned against Putin even in areas where more Russian lived, so what happens now is that his people from Russia get in and try to provoke things, yesterday one Ukrainina liberal guy was killed by Russians there.

There is a leak of Putins demands to stop aggression -

1) moved presidential elections in Ukraine
2) Ukraine never join EU
3) Ukraine never join NATO

Outrageous if true.