Giving unemployed Britons “new hope and responsibility” by Cameron

[vetran]

The benefits bill is spiralling because of the state pension which no politician will touch, in fact they guarantee it's going to keep going up. Until someone grasps that nettle our finances are ****ed.

What they need to do is separate pensioners & working age benefits so we can get a true picture.

not according to this :
UK welfare spending: how much does each benefit really cost? Visualised | News | theguardian.com

JSA & Housing benefit has grown appreciably.

State pensions & OAP benefits need reviewing but its political suicide to do so. At least they have raised the pension age which combined with a two tiered pension system (those that pay in getting more to encourage contribution)

[minestrone]

Whilst the pension bill is high I don't think we should compare the unemployment welfare cost and the pension cost , someone on unemployment benefits takes far more from the system than just the benefits, and they are not contributing tax.

The total cost to society for someone on unemployment benefit must be 10 times what unemployment benefit is alone.

[Jog On]

From what I see they're not just trying to cut back on spending but trying to change the benefits culture which has able bodied people choosing to live off the state because they can.

We can't afford the nanny state any more.

[doodab]

What they need to do is separate pensioners & working age benefits so we can get a true picture.

not according to this :
UK welfare spending: how much does each benefit really cost? Visualised | News | theguardian.com

JSA & Housing benefit has grown appreciably.

State pensions & OAP benefits need reviewing but its political suicide to do so. At least they have raised the pension age which combined with a two tiered pension system (those that pay in getting more to encourage contribution)

The state pension is still half the welfare budget, nearly £75 billion and set to grow due to the "demographic time bomb". Much of housing benefit goes to people in work, so do something about low wages and you'll save money there. JSA has grown but it's less than £5 billion and it's cyclic so will naturally fall as the economy improves.

Also, "click on image to embiggen"

[doodab]

The total cost to society for someone on unemployment benefit must be 10 times what unemployment benefit is alone.

I'd agree as they are usually going to be on housing benefit as well, as are a lot of disabled folk, and as you say they aren't contributing anything in tax either, although that's true of most low wage employees as well.

The real scandal IMO is that you have people who are working who are claiming housing benefit and income support because their job doesn't pay enough to live on. Until even low paid work actually pays enough to live on you are going to struggle to incentivise people of off benefits. Just beating them over the head with a stick won't work, there needs to be a carrot too.

I also think it's time we stopped pandering to big business who want to play the system in this way. There is plenty of noise about google & amazon avoiding taxes but the subsidising of low wage jobs by the state is costing us just as much and it's far more prevalent.

[MicrosoftBob]

The state pension is still half the welfare budget, nearly £75 billion and set to grow due to the "demographic time bomb". Much of housing benefit goes to people in work, so do something about low wages and you'll save money there. JSA has grown but it's less than £5 billion and it's cyclic so will naturally fall as the economy improves.

Also, "click on image to embiggen"

We could pay pensioners to move to Scotland

[minestrone]

I'd agree as they are usually going to be on housing benefit as well, as are a lot of disabled folk, and as you say they aren't contributing anything in tax either, although that's true of most low wage employees as well.

The real scandal IMO is that you have people who are working who are claiming housing benefit and income support because their job doesn't pay enough to live on. Until even low paid work actually pays enough to live on you are going to struggle to incentivise people of off benefits. Just beating them over the head with a stick won't work, there needs to be a carrot too.

I also think it's time we stopped pandering to big business who want to play the system in this way. There is plenty of noise about google & amazon avoiding taxes but the subsidising of low wage jobs by the state is costing us just as much and it's far more prevalent.

Exactly, a whole family can be essentially paid for through welfare of various kinds so that Pret can have the dad for minimum wage to serve customers for 16 hours a week.

The whole system is a total shambles but was it planned this way by Labour? So may people are totally dependant on the state now and that will be hard if not impossible to reverse.

[doodab]

The whole system is a total shambles but was it planned this way by Labour?

Well, I don't know, a lot of a lot of the long term problems that blight whole areas were inherited from the previous Tory government. Labour certainly didn't improve the situation but they didn't entirely create it either.

Either way, like you say, it's not an easy mess to clear up.

[original PM]

yep just need to find a way to stop people being paid for watching Oprah and making babies really

[doodab]

yep just need to find a way to stop people being paid for watching Oprah and making babies really

The reality is that makes up a tiny part of the welfare budget, perhaps a maximum of ten billions (a very generous estimtae as that's about half of all JSA and HB) out of nearly 150. By all means crack down and save that money, it seems perfectly reasonable to do so, but if you think it will solve the problems you need to invest in a calculator and a copy of "sums for dummies"