UK leaves EU?

[mudskipper]

I am a Scot, but I don't think we're going to vote for independence, otherwise you'd be right. If the EU vote were held first and went for "Out", then I'd guess the Scottish vote would go the other way.

My great-great-great-grandfather was Irish but I don't think that's close enough, most of the British Isles has at least that much Irish in them.

Most of my facebook 'friends' seem to be in the 'yes' camp.

One posted a link to this article which is quite interesting

My friends wonder why any intelligent Scot would vote Yes «


I think the problem is the 'no' = same old, same old. There isn't really a 'no' campaign as such, and many Scots want change.

[DodgyAgent]

Most of my facebook 'friends' seem to be in the 'yes' camp.

One posted a link to this article which is quite interesting

My friends wonder why any intelligent Scot would vote Yes «


I think the problem is the 'no' = same old, same old. There isn't really a 'no' campaign as such, and many Scots want change.

Change comes from within people themselves. Scotland will never prosper voting for left wing MPs

[Zero Liability]

I thought I was until some 'tories' turned into market fundamentalists. In fact I think I still am as I basically believe in free markets with a qualification; freedom's great but has to be accompanied with morality and responsibility;

What, like 0.01% of them? I doubt any of them have much principled belief in anything, let alone market "fundamentalism". They are very keen on public-private partnerships and the like, which benefit them and their cronies, and perhaps they sell this as the "free market", but I don't think the Tories are any more committed to the concept than the other parties are, other than the aforementioned PPP and the market for political favours. Their actions certainly don't indicate it.

These are also the same people who refuse to do anything about IR35, which is certainly an area (along with NI/PAYE more generally) that should exercise market "fundamentalists", and affects their supposedly beloved middle-class more than the 'rich' or any other group.

The reason I have so little patience for the Tories is precisely their lack of much in the way of principle. They are a political engine, through and through.

[DodgyAgent]

What, like 0.01% of them? I doubt any of them have much principled belief in anything, let alone market "fundamentalism". They are very keen on public-private partnerships and the like, which benefit them and their cronies, and perhaps they sell this as the "free market", but I don't think the Tories are any more committed to the concept than the other parties are, other than the aforementioned PPP and the market for political favours. Their actions certainly don't indicate it.

These are also the same people who refuse to do anything about IR35, which is certainly an area (along with NI/PAYE more generally) that should exercise market "fundamentalists", and affects their supposedly beloved middle-class more than the 'rich' or any other group.

The reason I have so little patience for the Tories is precisely their lack of much in the way of principle. They are a political engine, through and through.

That may be so they are the only show in town for any sort of free enterprise IR35 or not

[Flashman]

What, like 0.01% of them? I doubt any of them have much principled belief in anything, let alone market "fundamentalism". They are very keen on public-private partnerships and the like, which benefit them and their cronies, and perhaps they sell this as the "free market", but I don't think the Tories are any more committed to the concept than the other parties are, other than the aforementioned PPP and the market for political favours. Their actions certainly don't indicate it.

These are also the same people who refuse to do anything about IR35, which is certainly an area (along with NI/PAYE more generally) that should exercise market "fundamentalists", and affects their supposedly beloved middle-class more than the 'rich' or any other group.

The reason I have so little patience for the Tories is precisely their lack of much in the way of principle. They are a political engine, through and through.

The Tory Party has rotted from within. Just look at the quality of people in the party. Every Government burns through talent as people make mistake and enemies. This lot never had much going into Government!

I think increasingly we will see celebrities and sports stars going into British politics. All they'll have to do is read out the script on TV and look good doing so.

Anyone with real political talent will be in Brussels where the action is.

[Zero Liability]

Indeed, why get second-rate actors to do it when you can get the genuine article.

That may be so they are the only show in town for any sort of free enterprise IR35 or not

We'll see, UKIP may steal the wind from their sails in that regard. In the end, if the Tories were so dedicated to free markets and enterprise, they'd abolish it. The truth of the matter is anyone interested in free markets in that party has zero influence. There's only fringe elements like Daniel Hannan, who is more or less of no consequence to the Tory big wigs.

What ticks me off about MPs, regardless of party, and other anti avoidance 'crusaders' is that they're a) paid purely on the taxpayer's dime and b) are some of the biggest tax dodgers out there, and yet have the gall to whine about anyone other than them not paying "enough tax". There's always the obligatory finger-wagging at MNCs, but they're usually intelligent enough to realise that if these firms just pack up and leave, they won't have very good employment or GDP figures to brag about.

All I will say about the Tories is that they possess superior political acumen to their opposition's big names, e.g. Milliband, who has butchered his career as a PM before it even had the chance to begin.

[DodgyAgent]

Anyone with real political [I]opportunism skills [/I]will be in Brussels where the gravy train is.

FTFY

[scooterscot]

Most of my facebook 'friends' seem to be in the 'yes' camp.

Like wise. But's there a noticeable difference from years gone by. Many of them are West coasties who would have probably never voted in there puff despite the granddad celebrating his 32nd birthday. And if they did it would have been labour. Turnout has always being low. I think there's a attitude of 'something finally to get off my backside and vote for, even if it rains'. These voters don't read 'The times' for online polls and the like.

On the other side of the coin I notice the more well off members of the family have no intention of voting yes.

[petergriffin]

I think I'll get myself dual British-Dutch citizenship and hedge my bets.

You should know that you can't have dual citizenship in NL.

[GreyWolf]

The freedom of movement agreement applies to the European Economic Area and that is not same thing as the European Union. It's EU + EFTA (Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway) + Switzerland. There is a Europe outside of the EU.

If the UK leaves the EU it may rejoin EFTA. It may even come to a bilateral agreement with the EU regarding freedom of movement just like the Swiss have. Either way, British people in Europe are not going to be loaded into cattle trucks for resettlement north of Calais.

You can all hold off on the dual citizenship application for the time being.