Duggan verdict expected at 15:40

[SpontaneousOrder]

You're stopping a man who you genuinely*, and with good reason*, believe is armed with a semi automatic pistol. You're in a fast moving, dynamic situation - you approach him and he starts to ....

What I'm wondering is if it was necessary to create that situation in the first place. The objective is obviously not to execute the guy, so with that in mind perhaps the confrontation could have been contrived to put the police in more advantageous position.

If they had, this whole thing wouldn't have been running for 2 years because it would have been clear cut one way or the other.

[SpontaneousOrder]

He gave the impression he did when confronted by armed officers and was shot.

If that's the case then fine. It does make the whole fuss seem a bit pointless though

[Peoplesoft bloke]

We don't know the facts as we weren't there.

One thing that does seem factual is that the Police initially lied and said Duggan fired at them. That was at the least unwise if it's true.

It is very hard to determine the truth when all the protagonists appear to be lying.

I don't feel the world is especially the poorer without a gun-toting "big man" gangster (if that's what he was), but it would have been better to take him alive and put him inside, or for nature to take it's course and await his inevitable murder by a rival.

[vwdan]

What I'm wondering is if it was necessary to create that situation in the first place. The objective is obviously not to execute the guy, so with that in mind perhaps the confrontation could have been contrived to put the police in more advantageous position.

If they had, this whole thing wouldn't have been running for 2 years because it would have been clear cut one way or the other.

I believe that was one of the questions at the inquest - whether the Police acted in the best way possible with regards to the stop. I understand that the answer was also a majority "Yes, they did".

[vetran]

These police aren't Jackie Chan or Steven Seagal all that hand slapping stuff is rehearsed repeatedly. Guns kill, you don't mess about, you shoot till he stops moving and then you still treat him as dangerous.

He was the nephew of a known gangster, he was known as a Gangster,he supplied guns & drugs he was known to be armed previously and believed to be armed that day.

on LBC caller - "I feel now the black community should rise up" - not sure if he means rise up and get some new Nike trainers.

strange DAbbot wasn't Baffled when finding a decent school for her kids or getting her snout in the trough. Two faced opportunist idiot.

[RedSauce]

What I'm wondering is if it was necessary to create that situation in the first place. The objective is obviously not to execute the guy, so with that in mind perhaps the confrontation could have been contrived to put the police in more advantageous position.

If they had, this whole thing wouldn't have been running for 2 years because it would have been clear cut one way or the other.

The only reason it has run for 2 years is that it sparked the riots and Mark Duggan became infamous, I wonder how many criminals are killed in a similar fashion with no inquest as nobody really hears about it.

[Bunk]

He had the gun in the cab. The cab gets stopped by the police and he tries to avoid getting caught with the gun by throwing it over a fence from the cab. He succeeds in doing this which means the police still think he has the gun. He gets out of the taxi and gets shot. The only part I'm unsure about is whether he did anything to make them think he had it, ie hands in pockets, sudden movements, holding something else in his hand etc. Either way, the sequence of events leading up to the shooting make me think he should have been trying very hard not to give the police any reason to shoot him.

[jmo21]

You're stopping a man who you genuinely*, and with good reason*, believe is armed with a semi automatic pistol. You're in a fast moving, dynamic situation - you approach him and he starts to rapidly move/turn to face you/go for his pocket/etc. How long would YOU wait to determine if he's about to shoot? If you've shot weapons like you say, then you know as I do that 9mm pistols are not to be sniffed at.

I'm not saying there was NO way it could have gone differently, but hanging out the officer to dry over this one isn't constructive at all in my opinion.

*These are key points in this case, IMHO. When all said and done, they had solid intelligence, genuinely believed it AND they were proved right at the inquest.

THIS.