Benefits for immigrants from the EU

[darmstadt]

Does such universal benevolence to otherwise unrelated nations have any precedent? Do the figures show that there is a surplus of money in the UK's social security to enable the funding of this, if not, will this contribute to national indebtedness? Will we be better or worse equipped to counter negative externalities associated with the rise of China if we are more indebted to them as a nation?

You do know that the UK still give China 27 million pounds of aid a year?

[BlasterBates]

Does such universal benevolence to otherwise unrelated nations have any precedent? Do the figures show that there is a surplus of money in the UK's social security to enable the funding of this, if not, will this contribute to national indebtedness? Will we be better or worse equipped to counter negative externalities associated with the rise of China if we are more indebted to them as a nation?

So if you do away with this you save the money you would pay to EU immigrants...right

...but hang on the money you save you now have to pay to UK citizens in the EU claiming social security.

Now for your change to make sense the UK would have to save money, but you haven't brought any figures forward that would support your argument.

If you check the statistics you will see that there are roughly half million Brits living in Italy, Spain, Germany and France, and half a million of these living in the UK. These are the key countries who are part of this agreement you're against.

So it would make no sense at all to recind this agreement because the money saved by recinding would be balanced out by the equal number of Brits living in the other countries.

[AtW]

You do know that the UK still give China 27 million pounds of aid a year?

That's not aid to China you silly goof.

[wonderboy]

So much of the debate makes no intuitive sense to me. It follows from life experience that you should be careful about new acquaintances until they have proven themselves through good behaviour that they are a positive addition to your life. This principle intuitively can be applied at the nation state level. Providing *immediate* (by this I mean within two years) benefits to members of other nations appears to violate this principle.

Now you might say, "aha, but the agreements are reciprocal", but the meaning of reciprocal is clearly open to interpretation - because for example, I do not believe that living and working in Poland is as reciprocally attractive to a Brit as it is vice-versa Britain for a Pole.

Finally, even if the agreements are fairly reciprocal, this state of affairs appears significantly more complex than each nation state looking after it's own (until a change of nationality is applied for/accepted). One obvious complication is inter-cultural and inter-language barriers (and pure and simple physical distance) opening up the possibility for fraud (do you care if you are caught on speed camera on the continent?).

I do concede however that intuition can be wrong. I would be persuaded if someone could point to a study that showed that immigrants requiring immediate state assistance, after taking into consideration *all* the factors, on average contributed positively to the economy. Note that I am not talking about all immigration. I am talking specifically about providing immediate benefits to other nationals. I would also be persuaded if someone told me that this was a non-issue and that the numbers were blown out of all proportion by the press. The benevolence argument will only hold water with me someone can show me that the country can afford such benevolence.

Can someone recommend a decent source of accurate information on this topic? Does the government publish the basis for policy decisions?

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Can someone recommend a decent source of accurate information on this topic? Does the government publish the basis for policy decisions?

I wish, and you are joking, respectively. Sadly UK politics precludes any chance of either.

[yetanotherbob]

According to the information you provide, EU immigrants can claim benefits as a JobSeeker for 6 months (or more, if there is a "genuine chance of finding work") immediately. So I guess the answer to my question is yes, EU immigrants can claim benefits immediately upon landing in this country.

FTFY.
Non EU immigrants cannot claim anything ("no recourse to public funds" marked on a tier 1 visa for example)

[SueEllen]

FTFY.
Non EU immigrants cannot claim anything ("no recourse to public funds" marked on a tier 1 visa for example)

The title of the thread is EU immigrants so people from India, SA etc are excluded.

This thread is about insulting those Eastern and Central Europeans who will all rush to the UK on 1st January to claim British benefits.

We must ignore the fact there are loads here anyway already working in jobs Britons don't want to do e.g. care work or can't do.

[original PM]

So some facts:

Some sensible quotes n facts

Screw you with your fact, logic and common sense - we wanted none of that we have already made up our minds...

although the OP's question is still on my mind e.g.

What is the beneift to the UK for allowing this?

No one seems to have answered that everyone seems to be arguing that it does/does not cost as much as you think.

[minestrone]

The title of the thread is EU immigrants so people from India, SA etc are excluded.

This thread is about insulting those Eastern and Central Europeans who will all rush to the UK on 1st January to claim British benefits.

We must ignore the fact there are loads here anyway already working in jobs Britons don't want to do e.g. care work or can't do.

The change is to do with Roma and to deal with that I am quite happy to stop all Bulgarian and Romanian entry, I can't imagine a care home staffed with roma can you really? On induction day you would hear some screaming and the pensioners gold teeth would be missing.

[SueEllen]

The change is to do with Roma and to deal with that I am quite happy to stop all Bulgarian and Romanian entry, I can't imagine a care home staffed with roma can you really? On induction day you would hear some screaming and the pensioners gold teeth would be missing.

You are too late by over a decade with the normal folk. Who do you think picked your veggies during all this time?