Benefits for immigrants from the EU

[Flashman]

If you emigrate here with children, or have children while here, or a lone child when you come here then the British state has a duty of care to the children until they are adults.

If you wish to live in an uncivilised country you are welcome to emigrate to a non- developed one where they don't give a damn about people.

This is the problem. No one in the EU 'emigrates' to another country in the EU. You just turn up. The host country then is legally obliged under EU law to support them. You cannot treat EU citizens differently to people born in your own country.

These are the rules of the club. Pretty much everyone in the EU seems to understand this apart from, apparently, our own glorious Conservative party.

[darmstadt]

This is the problem. No one in the EU 'emigrates' to another country in the EU. You just turn up. The host country then is legally obliged under EU law to support them. You cannot treat EU citizens differently to people born in your own country.

These are the rules of the club. Pretty much everyone in the EU seems to understand this apart from, apparently, our own glorious Conservative party.

Not quite, the UK and only another 5 (Germany, Netherlands and a couple of others) are the only countries to provide a large range of benefits to EU migrants, all others have a very limited range available to migrants.

[BlasterBates]

The countries where they're allowed to come here and claim benefits straight away get paid exactly the same in their home country. Just point out here that Switzerland is also in this group.

It's a reciprocal arrangement and means you as a UK citizen can go to Germany or Switzerland and do the same, and people from the UK regularly do it.

No-one is going to come from Germany France or Switzerland simply to "live on the Dole", and it's not open to Eastern European countries. So no, half of Bulgaria isn't going to up sticks to come and live on the dole in the UK.

Still it's a great headline to "get angry" about.

[wonderboy]

The countries where they're allowed to come here and claim benefits straight away get paid exactly the same in their home country. Just point out here that Switzerland is also in this group.

Can you point me at a reputable reference for this? Plus I am interested in your comment regarding Eastern Europe. I thought a lot of the debate in recent years has been surrounding the accession to full EU membership status next year of eastern european countries like Bulgaria?

It's a reciprocal arrangement and means you as a UK citizen can go to Germany or Switzerland and do the same, and people from the UK regularly do it.

This is a strawman. I don't dispute that it is reciprocal. I would like to understand how it is deemed in our nations interest to permit entry of people who are going to rely on the state immediately.

[SueEllen]

This is a strawman. I don't dispute that it is reciprocal. I would like to understand how it is deemed in our nations interest to permit entry of people who are going to rely on the state immediately.

The aim is to be help the movement of skilled labour around the EU.

So if I sign on in the UK and there are more IT jobs in Germany, I can ask to receive benefits in Germany so I can go there if I have more chance of getting a job.

What tends to happen is recruiters and employers target countries that have the labour skills they want.

[AtW]

Perhaps benefits should be paid by the country which the person is citizen of.

[BlasterBates]

Can you point me at a reputable reference for this? Plus I am interested in your comment regarding Eastern Europe. I thought a lot of the debate in recent years has been surrounding the accession to full EU membership status next year of eastern european countries like Bulgaria?



This is a strawman. I don't dispute that it is reciprocal. I would like to understand how it is deemed in our nations interest to permit entry of people who are going to rely on the state immediately.

It saves a lot of hassle when you are moving around Europe that you don' have to jet off home every time you lose your job.

i.e. it benefits people from the UK who work around the EU and Switzerland. It's part of being in a market that supports the movement of people.

Since it only applies to countries with similar social security systems the number of Johnny Foreigners claiming benefits are balanced out by people from the UK claiming benefits in the other countries.

i.e. it doesn't cost the tax payer anything

[minestrone]

It saves a lot of hassle when you are moving around Europe that you don' have to jet off home every time you lose your job.

i.e. it benefits people from the UK who work around the EU and Switzerland. It's part of being in a market that supports the movement of people.

Since it only applies to countries with similar social security systems the number of Johnny Foreigners claiming benefits are balanced out by people from the UK claiming benefits in the other countries.

i.e. it doesn't cost the tax payer anything

You honestly think there are 1.2 million British people living in foreign social housing around the world supported by foreign governments?

[wonderboy]

The aim is to be help the movement of skilled labour around the EU.

So if I sign on in the UK and there are more IT jobs in Germany, I can ask to receive benefits in Germany so I can go there if I have more chance of getting a job.

What tends to happen is recruiters and employers target countries that have the labour skills they want.

If that is the intention then it is completely wrongheaded because movement of *skilled* labor is is no way restricted without these reciprocal benefit agreements - you've heard of the World Wide Web and Skype? They've been around for some time now. As a skilled person I can go online and apply to Romanian companies to my heart's content, or register my resume with recruitment agencies in any country I like. A reciprocal benefit agreement is neither here nor there to a skilled worker.

[AtW]

You honestly think there are 1.2 million British people living in foreign social housing around the world supported by foreign governments?

Either that or they took the jobs which could have been filled by locals