Whites only flights!

[Fungus]

Fungus. Thats a pretty weak f-cking argument. You know a couple of people who do things for charity, for the good of the people. So do I.

Also there are people who do nasty f-cking things, I even know a couple a bastards.

Try not to be so f-cking weak. Just because you talk about a subject, doesnt make you a racist.

Bollocks.

What pisses me off is the tendency here to conflate all Muslims into one hate figure c.f. sappatz's comments. No-one is saying that there is not a real threat from extremists which should be discussed. But what we have here is an almost completely one sided debate probably based on columns in newspapers. Could that be columns by Melanie Phillips.

But to say that all Arabs and Pakis should clear off because they are a threat is the nastiest kind of racism pure and simple and one or two of the other comments here are veering in that direction. I'm not saying that I've met one or two pleasant Muslims. I'm saying that I've met large numbers and they are ordinary decent people. FFS they were invited here because we needed workers. But many second generation immigrants are finding that they are rejected, which discourages them from integrating. Hardly surprising given the level of demonisation here.

[Fungus]

So is the idea of being blown up by a suicide bomber.

The implication in that statement is that ordinary Muslims are suicide bombers. You and other racists can feck off.

[Fungus]

You are confusing the people with the religion fungus. Of course they are mostly pretty decent, didn't I say that? Most people are and I don't doubt what you say at all about those blokes at all, but it is completely irrelevant.

By the same token most Iranians or Saudis will be pretty decent but they still have states where there is little or no tolerance of any other religion. They are hardly unique in having major limitations on other's faiths. Do you defend that? Or the routine attacks on Christians and others in Indonesia? Or the utterly barbaric practices of Shariah?. Or do you care to defend the casual genocidal view that calls for all the Israelis to be wiped out? Not just the view of ranting backstreet Imams but the leader of a major Islamic country. Perhaps you think the recent surveys on Islamic opinion in Britain are all false propoganda? or some of the comments on the recent channel 4 program justifying stoning of adulterers etc were faked? Or I suppose that's just a tiny handful of extremists is it?

Too many people like yourself call for tolerance and yet they casually, and in your case I have to add ignorantly, defend this most intolerant of creeds. As I have suggested before, try doing some actual research on what is actually going on in the world in the name of Islam. Forget the ranters, just stick to the factual news reports. Just keep an open mind and look for yourself. This sort of parochial argument you always come out with is just meaningless platitudes and truisms.

To anyone else, I suggest that we all start having the guts to stick up for what WE believe in, individual freedom and democracy and the secular state.

I agree with much of the above. But have you ever spoken to Israelis? I have. Have you ever heard them talk about wiping out Arabs? I have. Did you know that a Rabbi in Israeli described Arabs as lice and vermin who should be exterminated? He did. Or what about the ex-Israeli president (Netanyahu) who each year celebrates the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem where almost 100 people, mostly civilians, were murdered by Israeli terrorists? But that does not get discussed here. Because the hatred on this site is for Muslims. On this web site statements like "Most Muslim states are oppressive regimes" and "there are some evil Muslim extremists" in the UK which are true by any measure quickly become "Most Muslims are awful".

[AtW]

You will do well to check back on your homeland. There is an upsurge in Christian belief only bettered in China.

Yes, and this made me change my position to Russian Ortodox Church from indifference to slowly but surely burning hatred: the church is used to fool people and this is done by politicians. Do you know that now in Russia you can't start business without making present to local church? Effectively they became new kind of mafia, and this is happening in a country that in Constitution said to be secular society!

In fact I tell you more: one very close friend of mine had a personal disaster - her dad died in an accident, dad was PhD in Physics but shortly before for some reason got religious (Ortodox Christian church), and when he died he was in church and my friend was crying over his body - and those church clerics exploited her moment of weakness by talking into how better afterlife will be for dad if she joins them!!!! This kind of crap should be absolutely illegal. Thankfully Christian church in the UK is much less aggressive and to be fair they are reasonable people, but Russian Ortodox Church is an opressive institution that was and still is carefully supported by the powers that be because this allows to control people in the country.

The one right thing communists did was to forcefully separate church and State, this is now being reversed in Russia, giving me yet another reason to not to live there because I simple can't stand watching Chico's of this world on TV everyday and on streets, everywhere - trying to push their foolish view on weakminded people.

Heck, Scientologiests are innocent comparing to them - at least in scientology they effectively offer a chance to join pyramid and earn some cash while "believing" some crap, they don't take over your life as much as Russian Ortodox Chuch does as well as some others. All this made me change my position to religion from neutral to negative, even though I have to say that in this country leaders of the church seem smart and they act in a clever non-opressive way, so I am still neutral to people like Bishop of Cant-rry.

[Spartacus]

I agree with much of the above. But have you ever spoken to Israelis? I have. Have you ever heard them talk about wiping out Arabs? I have. Did you know that a Rabbi in Israeli described Arabs as lice and vermin who should be exterminated? He did. Or what about the ex-Israeli president (Netanyahu) who each year celebrates the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem where almost 100 people, mostly civilians, were murdered by Israeli terrorists? But that does not get discussed here. Because the hatred on this site is for Muslims. On this web site statements like "Most Muslim states are oppressive regimes" and "there are some evil Muslim extremists" in the UK which are true by any measure quickly become "Most Muslims are awful".

But it's Muslims trying to kill me, not Jews. And I'm afraid to say I take a quite partisan view when it comes to who's trying to kill me.

[mcquiggd]

That's outrageous.

What we need is multi-faith suicide bombers to prove that stupidity, ignorance, and the ability to murder after being brainwashed that a medieval superstition is a suitable replacement for common sense is not purely the preserve of islam.

[AtW]

What we need is multi-faith suicide bombers

Its strange situation IMO. Say you believe in God, okay fair enough, but you DO know there are other religions, so if you allow possibility of some God existance, then its only logical to think why is your God is the only one? What if other religions actually got right one and instead of heaven with 69 virgins you will go to some other God's hell? Its only logical to hedge bets in such case and at least cover key 4-5 religions. Once this is done the stupidity should be self-obvious.

Bottom line is this - until people believe stuff like they go to heaven after death if they blow themselves up, then there will be plenty of Chico-like fools who would do just that. Remove religion from equation and the world will become much more peaceful.

[mcquiggd]

Well, perhaps start with 'positive selection'. Quotas for suicide bombers - although I guess islam might have a problem with female applicants.

What would women 'martyrs' find when they meet that misogynistic wacko allah - 69 virgins? How dissapointed would they be. Denied a decent seeing to on earth, no prada handbags etc, and then they first have to teach all those dead sucide bombers how to actually satisfy a woman. Like having their first fumble repeated for eternity.

[AlfredJPruffock]

Atw your Russian atheist upbringing determines your so called logic. You will do well to check back on your homeland. There is an upsurge in Christian belief only bettered in China. It is simple really when people have been starved of the the truth for years, when it finally appears there is a yearning which surpasses understanding. Truth is not a something, an abstract concept or an idea but a person - Jesus Christ , the Creator, Sustainor and Saviour of the world. he is The Way, The Truth and The Life.

Jesus said love and pray for your enemies, Allah says kill your enemies.
Jesus calls himself the Truth, Allah says it is ok to deceive in the name of jihad.

"Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf]?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it," (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).

Therefore equating these two is the most irrational thing you can do. Even for a self styled atheist like yourself.

But Chico the Christian chuurch claims that Sep eleventh was an inside job and the US is Satanic; whom do I beleive; the Mullahs in Iran claim the US is also Satanic;whom do I believe?

Surely this proves ATW secular stance is correct ?

[Chico]

Remove religion from equation and the world will become much more peaceful.

Atw check your history they already tried that in a place called the USSR with something called communism. I wonder how that experiment turned out? Also check how Marxism and Nazism ended up. By default removing the freedom to worship equates to fascism - simple really.

Why are atheists so obsessed with ramming down their irrational beliefs down everyone's throat? Can't you atheists just accept you have your belief and the theists have theirs?