Recent immigrants to UK 'make net contribution'

[sasguru]

Living in the SE one interacts with immigrants all the time - at the bottom end they do my cleaning, gardening and building and at the top end they're my colleagues and clients.
It's surprising how few English people (and I mean of all colours, just people born in England) one interacts with nowadays during a normal business day.
I reckon it's due to the labour educashun that many have got - it doesn't make one suitable for the modern world.
And that leads to the kicker: as the world gets more technological I don't see how immigration can be curtailed. Essentially a country needs more and more well-educated people with an IQ > 120.
That rules out most of you lot, so we need to go and get them from somewhere else.

[darmstadt]

I reckon it's due to the labour educashun that many have got - it doesn't make one suitable for the modern world.
And that leads to the kicker: as the world gets more technological I don't see how immigration can be curtailed. Essentially a country needs more and more well-educated people with an IQ > 120.
That rules out most of you lot, so we need to go and get them from somewhere else.

Nah, we just migrated away and became immigrants in another country :-)

[sasguru]

Nah, we just migrated away and became immigrants in another country :-)

Germans are so desperate they'll take anyone though

[Mich the Tester]

Indeed, however it shouldn't be a mandatory part of life in the UK.

Of course not, but when it comes to migration I try to see opportunities. Sure there are drawbacks, but why not think like a money grabbing bastard contractor and use the opportunity to learn a language that might well make you a tulipload of money in the future? It's a feeble example perhaps, but sometimes I hear people complaining about migrants and just ask them ' well have you spoken with them? have you asked them what motivated them to come here? have you tried to understand things from another point of view?'

Usually when I ask those questions I find the answers sadly lacking; that might go a little way to explaining why all western governments are wrestling with migration issues without actually having much influence on migration flows. We just have lots of populist measures that let politicians say 'ooh look we're tackling immigration' when actually many don't have a clue what they're doing. The Dutch government spent a few years proudly parading about telling everyone they'd got immigration and asylum seeking under control because the numbers fell for a few years, and then suddenly, this year, the numbers shot up and they had to re-open centres for asylum seekers; the big change was probably the ongoing conflict in Syria, whereby people are so desperate they couldn't give a stuff what some law says about visas because they just want to get the hell out. Of course, polticians then run around blaming each other for something they never had any control over anyway.

There ARE actually practical ideas in this field of study to try and gain more benefits from migration with less structural strain on 'host' societies, but they often aren't politically expedient; ideas like opening up circular migration, which is thought would help hosts and migrants and countries of origin to varying degrees, but it involves giving more fredom for temporary migrationm and that's a difficult sell for governments.

There's some interesting work on this going on at Oxford University's International Migration Institute, but I doubt that any prospective MP would want to quote what they say on the doorsteps.

[SueEllen]

Germans are so desperate they'll take anyone though

Well if you didn't have a former Empire needs must and all that.......

[KentPhilip]

Living in the SE one interacts with immigrants all the time - at the bottom end they do my cleaning

They clean your bottom end?

[Mich the Tester]

Well if you didn't have a former Empire needs must and all that.......

Germany's Empire was not large, but economically significant in terms of natural resources; it was basically confiscated after WW1, partly as reparations, and partly because they were such complete bastards towards the natives of their colonies, although there were other colonists who were arguably even worse and got away with it, e.g. Belgium.

[sasguru]

They clean your bottom end?

One of my ancestors most likely had a "gentleman of the stool".

[vetran]

However if his report is totally factual then it pretty much buggers up the Mail and their ilk complaining about EU immigrants:



As can be seen by the above quote, its the immigrants who don't come from the EU who apparently ponce on the state. This says as much about the government's immigration policy as it does about the lying liars. It has also been noted in other reports that the government figures doesn't take into account people like students or those who work here for a couple of years and then go home (this was proven in a report in Germany that many of the immigrants weren't in fact immigrants but people who came to work for periods at a time and then returned home.)

what Services did they measure? If you have no recourse to public funds or limitations on benefit access then you will use less.

Did they pay more or less tax - benefits than uk equivalents?

Compare these people

Joe Blogs - Cleaner earns £14k pays £1400 tax, age 40 with two kids receives £2000 in Working Tax Credits.

Jim Skiver - Unemployed - used to be a Supervisor cleaner on £18K but his job was outsourced to a new cheaper supplier. 50 with 3 kids (couldn't afford them until he was promoted to supervisor) £18,000 in benefits.

Piotr Pole - Cleaner Supervisor (works for new supplier) Earns £12k pays £1000 tax, age 20 with no kids receives £0 in working tax credits.



rough figures do feel free to ignore on the base you think the tax amounts are wrong or other such irrelevancy.

So Piotr Pole supplants Jim Skiver and whilst we gain £1000 in Tax we lose £18K in benefits and the £2K tax Jim would have paid makes us out £19,000.

But if you look at Piotr on his own then it looks like he is a positive contributor.

Joe Blogs won't see a Pay rise any time soon because Piotr's Brother will do the same job for £10k.

[sasguru]

what Services did they measure? If you have no recourse to public funds or limitations on benefit access then you will use less.

Did they pay more or less tax - benefits than uk equivalents?

Compare these people

Joe Blogs - Cleaner earns £14k pays £1400 tax, age 40 with two kids receives £2000 in Working Tax Credits.

Jim Skiver - Unemployed - used to be a Supervisor cleaner on £18K but his job was outsourced to a new cheaper supplier. 50 with 3 kids (couldn't afford them until he was promoted to supervisor) £18,000 in benefits.

Piotr Pole - Cleaner Supervisor (works for new supplier) Earns £12k pays £1000 tax, age 20 with no kids receives £0 in working tax credits.



rough figures do feel free to ignore on the base you think the tax amounts are wrong or other such irrelevancy.

So Piotr Pole supplants Jim Skiver and whilst we gain £1000 in Tax we lose £18K in benefits and the £2K tax Jim would have paid makes us out £19,000.

But if you look at Piotr on his own then it looks like he is a positive contributor.

Joe Blogs won't see a Pay rise any time soon because Piotr's Brother will do the same job for £10k.

Wow! thought of doing a PhD?