If I hadn't gone to private school...

[SueEllen]

What utter condescending nonsense. Have you read or seen the film Billy Elliot? Every child is capable and once parents start to see what is available to them do you really think they will hold back, particularly when others start to pick out good schools for their children.

Since you didn't grow up in the area I did with the people I know then you can't comment.

It's only in this century that teachers have been told officially, whether they are primary or secondary school teachers, that they needed to tell all the children they teach that they can get to university.

[mudskipper]

well it is not me that thinks that the poor (sorry "crappy") do not give a tulip about their children. You are blending this into an argument to stop the lower classes having access to the very best education for their children. This I am afraid is left wing dogma. I know you are not a leftie but you should just step back from yourself and read what you said.

I think vouchers is a great idea. However, I suspect you'd find that the vast majority would use them to send their kid to their local primary/comp as they do now. The people who'd benefit are the middle class parents who already shop around, attend church, or jump through other hoops for the best state schools.

[DodgyAgent]

I think vouchers is a great idea. However, I suspect you'd find that the vast majority would use them to send their kid to their local primary/comp as they do now. The people who'd benefit are the middle class parents who already shop around, attend church, or jump through other hoops for the best state schools.

You are probably right, but the mere fact that the power is in the hands of the consumer will raise standards

[mudskipper]

You are probably right, but the mere fact that the power is in the hands of the consumer will raise standards

All parents currently have a choice of school. They don't always get their first choice, but choice is there. If all schools were private, the good ones would still be oversubscribed.

[DodgyAgent]

Since you didn't grow up in the area I did with the people I know then you can't comment.

It's only in this century that teachers have been told officially, whether they are primary or secondary school teachers, that they needed to tell all the children they teach that they can get to university.

I suppose that when women were given the vote they did not have the aspiration to vote? Or that the working classes would make use of mass transit systems? The world does not stand still.

[SueEllen]

You are probably right, but the mere fact that the power is in the hands of the consumer will raise standards

Like with the NHS where if you need an operation you can choose which of your "local" hospitals you can go to? However if you live in a rural area with only one hospital you are screwed.

I do know people who were brought up in areas where there was only one "nearby" state school. Those with richer families went to boarding school there as those with not so rich families had to just go to the nearby state school regardless of it's quality.

[SueEllen]

I suppose that when women were given the vote they did not have the aspiration to vote? Or that the working classes would make use of mass transit systems? The world does not stand still.

You found my post incredible?

I found it incredible when a some of the teachers I know in the state sector told me this.

[DodgyAgent]

All parents currently have a choice of school. They don't always get their first choice, but choice is there. If all schools were private, the good ones would still be oversubscribed.

No they do not. They are driven by supply not demand - kids are having to compete for school places when schools should be competing for the kids. The middle classes and the rich can indeed shop around but the majority of people have to take what is given. My whole point is that everyone should be able to shop around and choose.

[DodgyAgent]

Like with the NHS where if you need an operation you can choose which of your "local" hospitals you can go to? However if you live in a rural area with only one hospital you are screwed.

I do know people who were brought up in areas where there was only one "nearby" state school. Those with richer families went to boarding school there as those with not so rich families had to just go to the nearby state school regardless of it's quality.

are you trying to apply my argument to the NHS?

[mudskipper]

I suppose that when women were given the vote they did not have the aspiration to vote? Or that the working classes would make use of mass transit systems? The world does not stand still.

So do you think that all children should go to university, and regardless of how dim and indolent, be well enough taught to come out with a good degree? How then do you differentiate when entering the real world?