If the Syrian rebels really want help...

[Cenobite]

The Middle-East countries are sorting themselves out, you must remember that they're living in our equivalent of the middle-ages

I've never accepted this argument. So Islam has only been around 1400 years or so, but these people must have had some sort of culture and traditions before Mohammed came along: they weren't born yesterday at that point.

I don't think just because a religion comes along that resets the clock. By your argument we'd ought to be letting off Scientologists for all sorts.

[NotAllThere]

Part of Islamic understanding is that they were to replace Judaism and Christianity, and would supersede Christian Europe. After the Industrial Revolution and the fall of the Ottoman empire some years later, it became clear that Islam was no longer waxing with Christianity waning. This caused a conservative reaction as preachers began to claim this decline in Islamic fortune was due to God's displeasure with his people. As a result "liberal" Islam was largely abandoned, and the muslim countries became far more reactionary - which, ironically, accelerated the decline.

[sasguru]

The Middle-East countries are sorting themselves out, you must remember that they're living in our equivalent of the middle-ages, albeit with modern toys/weapons.

.

Its not that simple and linear. There were at least 2 points when the Middle Eastern countries were at the top of the world: (1) at the dawn of civilisation and (2) during the golden age of Islam: algebra, algorithm and alcohol are words taken from Arabic.
And given the current lack of understanding and respect for science and technology in the West, the understanding and exploitation of which made us dominant, I predict that Western dominance will be short-lived in historical terms.

Also the West is not particularly wiser than the Middle East. It's within living memory that we tore ourselves apart in a European war which makes what's happening in Syria and Egypt look like a walk in the park by comparison.

[Paddy]

Part of Islamic understanding is that they were to replace Judaism and Christianity, and would supersede Christian Europe. After the Industrial Revolution and the fall of the Ottoman empire some years later, it became clear that Islam was no longer waxing with Christianity waning. This caused a conservative reaction as preachers began to claim this decline in Islamic fortune was due to God's displeasure with his people. As a result "liberal" Islam was largely abandoned, and the muslim countries became far more reactionary - which, ironically, accelerated the decline.

Thank God I’m an atheist.

[original PM]

[QUOTE=sasguru;1799934]Its not that simple and linear. There were at least 2 points when the Middle Eastern countries were at the top of the world: (1) at the dawn of civilisation and (2) during the golden age of Islam: algebra, algorithm and alcohol are words taken from Arabic.
And given the current lack of understanding and respect for science and technology in the West, the understanding and exploitation of which made us dominant, I predict that Western dominance will be short-lived in historical terms.

Also the West is not particularly wiser than the Middle East. It's within living memory that we tore ourselves apart in a European war which makes what's happening in Syria and Egypt look like a walk in the park by comparison.[/QUOTE]

hmm but that was because we were faced with a very real threat from a complete goon with a large war machine.

when was the last European Civil war?

[Mich the Tester]

[
when was the last European Civil war?

1991 to 2001, former Yugoslavia.

[doodab]

Its not that simple and linear. There were at least 2 points when the Middle Eastern countries were at the top of the world: (1) at the dawn of civilisation and (2) during the golden age of Islam: algebra, algorithm and alcohol are words taken from Arabic.
And given the current lack of understanding and respect for science and technology in the West, the understanding and exploitation of which made us dominant, I predict that Western dominance will be short-lived in historical terms.

The Iranians pursue scientific & technological advance very aggressively, because the leadership believes that a lack of scientific progress leaves them open to bullying by more developed countries. They certainly aren't backwards, and in some areas of medicine & bio tech they are world class, as well as having an indigenous arms & aerospace industry that can produce satellites, drones and other fairly advanced stuff.

It's an interesting place Iran, and a lot more complex than it's usually portrayed in our media.

[original PM]

was that a civil war or ethnic cleansing?

[Mich the Tester]

was that a civil war or ethnic cleansing?

Both.

[original PM]

and what did 'we' do about that?