Makes me mad, it really does

[Mich the Tester]

and if they are found innocent later?

Don't let that get in the way of a good rant!

[Mich the Tester]

Have them breaking rocks for 12 hours a day on a diet of bread and water and they won't last 25 years - problem solved

Then keep them in unprecedented luxury, feed them whatever they like, provide leisure facilities and internet access just in case but then what do you do if they are found guilty later?

False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Deary me, sometimes I think Sasguru might be right about the intellects around here.

[sasguru]

Deary me, sometimes I think Sasguru might be right about the intellects around here.

What do you mean sometimes?

[Paddy]

False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Deary me, sometimes I think Sasguru might be right about the intellects around here.

Thanks for that. I shall use falsum in uno, falsum in omnibus in a skeleton argument for the Court of Appleal. (It looks good anyway)

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Deary me, sometimes I think Sasguru might be right about the intellects around here.

You are correct it is a false dilemma but the point, simplistic though it may be, is valid. Prison in the 1800's was tough, brutal and cruel and did little to deter criminals but, in those days, much criminal behavior was as a result of necessity; there was no welfare system so, if you were poor, you risked starvation. Many turned to crime in an attempt to provide for their family, many were sent to debtors prison and many were put to death for crimes that today would not warrant a caution. However, these days we seem to have gone the other way and although we have a welfare state that lifts everyone out of the extreme poverty that was experienced 150 years ago people still thieve and those thefts are often violent. If they are caught they will be sent to prison at some point but their prison term will contain no element of punishment other than the deprivation of liberty. I am sure that I, like most on hear, only know what we know about the prison system from what I read but IMHO prisoners these days seem to take little responsibility for their actions because there are no serious consequences. Would breaking rocks on a diet of bread and water deter people from a life of violent crime - some probably. Does treating prisoners like guests reduce re-offending rates? It doesn't appear so. Should the human rights of prisoners take precedence over the human rights of their victims - no absolutely not. Does the system some times get it wrong and the innocent are found guilty - of course because no-one is infallible but that doesn't mean that the prison system shouldn't be geared towards teaching that for every action there is a consequence.

[Mich the Tester]

... no element of punishment other than the deprivation of liberty...

That's quite a significant punishment in itself.

[Paddy]

You are correct it is a false dilemma but the point, simplistic though it may be, is valid. Prison in the 1800's was tough, brutal and cruel and did little to deter criminals but, in those days, much criminal behavior was as a result of necessity; there was no welfare system so, if you were poor, you risked starvation. Many turned to crime in an attempt to provide for their family, many were sent to debtors prison and many were put to death for crimes that today would not warrant a caution. However, these days we seem to have gone the other way and although we have a welfare state that lifts everyone out of the extreme poverty that was experienced 150 years ago people still thieve and those thefts are often violent. If they are caught they will be sent to prison at some point but their prison term will contain no element of punishment other than the deprivation of liberty. I am sure that I, like most on hear, only know what we know about the prison system from what I read but IMHO prisoners these days seem to take little responsibility for their actions because there are no serious consequences. Would breaking rocks on a diet of bread and water deter people from a life of violent crime - some probably. Does treating prisoners like guests reduce re-offending rates? It doesn't appear so. Should the human rights of prisoners take precedence over the human rights of their victims - no absolutely not. Does the system some times get it wrong and the innocent are found guilty - of course because no-one is infallible but that doesn't mean that the prison system shouldn't be geared towards teaching that for every action there is a consequence.

A female pensioner was jailed for a month because she refused to pay a fine after being caught evading the TV licence.

The 63-year-old was one of hundreds sent to prison last year for non-payment of court fines – many of which were imposed for minor offences such as littering, begging and even having a dirty windscreen.

Woman pensioner jailed for not paying TV licence - ridiculous cost of jailing fine dodgers in Northern Ireland - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

In some cases people who owed as little as £10 were sentenced to a week,

[BrilloPad]

In some cases people who owed as little as £10 were sentenced to a week,

I bet if your clientco owed you a pavaroti you would sentence them to a month. Of pogo sticking across the M25.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

That's quite a significant punishment in itself.

Depends on your mentality doesn't it.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

A female pensioner was jailed for a month because she refused to pay a fine after being caught evading the TV licence.

The 63-year-old was one of hundreds sent to prison last year for non-payment of court fines – many of which were imposed for minor offences such as littering, begging and even having a dirty windscreen.

Woman pensioner jailed for not paying TV licence - ridiculous cost of jailing fine dodgers in Northern Ireland - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

In some cases people who owed as little as £10 were sentenced to a week,

That's a failure with the Courts system and Government guidelines for sentencing not a fault with the prison system