Immigration - social trouble on its way

[DodgyAgent]

Can you tell me what you mean by people 'trained not to work'?
When I look around the major cities of 'the North' (and I'm not sure what you mean by that, maybe north of Watford?) I see major investment from industry. Look at a city like Leeds it's bustling with investment from banks and financial institutions etc. If you want to believe the stereotypes from 20 years ago still exist then firstly have a look around the newtowns in the South East, you will easily find those 'trained not to work' and it isn't because of lack of investment.

Welfare is effectively paying someone money "not to work". In a society where thre are no jobs then maybe there is justification for this. We have a society that is full of jobs yet we have 3.7 million people who are either unemployed or are on disability benefit. What is going on? there is a reason for this and it is because welfare dependents are cruelly dependent on those who support such an evil system. One of the worst things you can do to a human being is deprive them of the ability to work which is what the left have done. The reason that this evil persists is again because the rest of us are made to feel guilt so we happily give our taxes knowing (falsely) that:

a. The poor will not be our problem
b. We are doing them a favour

Unfortunatly the poor do become our problem as they resent being excluded from society and return the so-called "favour" of welfare by committing the most crime and anti social behaviour.

The Poles have no jobs but nor do they have welfare. What they do have is motivation (which is the thing that welfare removes) so they have a huge advantage over our workforce.

I can already see what is happening amongst University students from middle class families. Because they have money they decide to go and travel the world or f*** about for a while after Uni and "maybe" get a job. I have seen it here with young graduates who take the view "I will see what it is like and maybe move on in 9 months" The polish attitude is that the job is very precious and that they will do their utmost to prove themselves.

Who would you employ?

The Pole or the English graduate?

These people will be running the UK in 15 years time

[snaw]

we have had this argument before and you have yet to argue a proper case for these businesses to have been supported at taxpayers expense. The local industries were destroyed because they were not competitive. This is what has happened to Eastern Europe but instead of moaning and sitting back on welfare handouts (you will never work again payments) the Poles got on their bikes or buses and travelled to where the work was.

You talk about giving something in return I would like to know exactly what that should have been. You condemne maggie yet you offer no alternative doctrine. If she had never come to power the UK would today be on a par with Poland.

The jobs are in the South East because the South East enjoys a culture of freedom end entrepreneurial spirit. The work force reflects this. In scotland the so called work force is a drug/alcohol crazed population of no hopers thanks to the curse of welfare. In scotland entrepreneur is a dirty word.

If unemployment blackspots are so impossible to change why is it that Lithuania, which was a far more serious and larger unemployment blackspot than anywhere in the UK 5 years ago, now doing so well. Also why is it that all your so-called blackspots such as Glasgow, Newcastle and Liverpool now cannot get enough Polish workers despite having such a huge population of their own unemployed workers?

The answer lies in welfare.

We have had this arguement, and as usual you didn't listen then so I doubt you'll listen now. I never said they should have been supported, at any point. I've always said that once she'd ripped them apart these areas got completely neglected, we now see the effects from this. It could have been done in a completely different way is the case I've always stated.

You've got a nerve now blaming those same people for the economic disaster that befell them, a complete lack of knowledge in stating that they should leave to get work elsewhere (Many do), and an utter lack of understanding of community outside of the priveleged south - not everyone has the inclination, the money or the desire to move to the south of England to chase a job. This doesn't make them social parasites any more than the poles who stay in Poland are, for choosing not to leave the place they know best.

Your comments on Scotland I find grossly offensive, and as per usual completely uniformed - you really don't have the capability to see the world outside of your narrow little tunnel vision, do you? There are plenty of Scottish entrepreneurs, something we have a rich tradition in, and calling the workforce a "so called work force is a drug/alcohol crazed population of no hopers thanks to the curse of welfare" completely misses the truth, not to mention being pretty feckin insulting to a large number of people - wtf makes you so special you can denegrate others in this manner?

The jobs are in the South East cause it's the base for most of the major industries/services in the UK. London is a world leader in many areas, and subsequently get's all the talent, the local region reaps the benefits. The entrepreneurial spirit you mention is fueled by a large percentage of this talent, a lot of which doesn't come from the SE but instead moves here because that's where the opportunities are. There are plenty of pockets in Scotland where this is true also, and a few in the SE where the reverse is true. If you give people the opportunities then many will take them.

You quoting Lithuania is just plain fecking funny. It's unemployment figures are down for two major reason's - mass emigration since joining the EU, and foreign investment because of cheap labour (Not something Scotland can compete with unfortunately), it still has serious issues with long term unemployed (ANd about the same unemploymed rate as Scotland). It helps there is a government in place who make it easy for business too come there, I'd be all for that in Scotland too but it's a bit much to blame the people you condemn for this not happening - I'm not so certain it's something they have complete control over ...

[bobsmithldn]

I'd always employ Polish chicks ...

[DodgyAgent]

I'd always employ Polish chicks ...

Is that with or without Dicks?

[Hart-floot]

If unemployment blackspots are so impossible to change why is it that Lithuania, which was a far more serious and larger unemployment blackspot than anywhere in the UK 5 years ago, now doing so well. Also why is it that all your so-called blackspots such as Glasgow, Newcastle and Liverpool now cannot get enough Polish workers despite having such a huge population of their own unemployed workers?

The answer lies in welfare.

Lithuania has reduced it's unemployment in large part due to the emigration of its workforce. Have you been to Dublin lately?

The situation in Liverpool and Glasgow you describe is pretty similar to the pattern found in USA cities like LA or Miami. Where locals cannot afford to take the jobs that pay around or below minimum wage especially if they have kids but the recent immigrants will. One of the reasons why there is such a large black underclass in the US.

[DodgyAgent]

Lithuania has reduced it's unemployment in large part due to the emigration of its workforce. Have you been to Dublin lately?

The situation in Liverpool and Glasgow you describe is pretty similar to the pattern found in USA cities like LA or Miami. Where locals cannot afford to take the jobs that pay around or below minimum wage especially if they have kids but the recent immigrants will. One of the reasons why there is such a large black underclass in the US.

No the reason that there is such a large black underclass in the US is because their society does not bother to give them a decent education. At least the communists educated their people.

So why is Poland only growing at 5% then

That is a classic piece of disinformation. The difference between Poland and Lithuania is that Lithuania has a low tax regime and has an agenda to make it easier for businesses to operate. In Poland the country is run by a couple of right wing twins who are engaged in a war with their communist enemies of the past and who have not the slightest incliniation to kick start the economy.

They are like some of you lot they still live with their mothers.

[sasguru]

He he! While you're wasting time on the forum, I can see my Lithuanian employee (whom we call the "SAS robot" due to his efficiency and attention to detail) busy tapping away - and I bet he's not typing tulipe on some forum.
Carry on fiddling while Rome burns, boys and girls ...

[sasguru]

No the reason that there is such a large black underclass in the US is because their society does not bother to give them a decent education.

You're not being consistent, DA. According to all you've said before it's not the state's job to "give" education. It's up to the person to "get" it.

[DodgyAgent]

You're not being consistent, DA. According to all you've said before it's not the state's job to "give" education. It's up to the person to "get" it.

No SASguru. I was saying that the state should harness the resources for education and set the standards and supervisory bodies. The schools should be independent of the state and the children and their parents should be given choices about which schools to send their children.

Class sizes should be no larger than 20 and all kids should be made to play sport, play a musical instrument and learn a foreign language or two. Where kids have disfunctional parents then the choice of school can be made by local social services or other more functional members of an extended families.

The choice element where schools can be run under licence would sharpen the performance of the supplier schools pretty quickly.

[Bagpuss]

Welfare is effectively paying someone money "not to work". In a society where thre are no jobs then maybe there is justification for this. We have a society that is full of jobs yet we have 3.7 million people who are either unemployed or are on disability benefit. What is going on? there is a reason for this and it is because welfare dependents are cruelly dependent on those who support such an evil system. One of the worst things you can do to a human being is deprive them of the ability to work which is what the left have done. The reason that this evil persists is again because the rest of us are made to feel guilt so we happily give our taxes knowing (falsely) that:

a. The poor will not be our problem
b. We are doing them a favour

Unfortunatly the poor do become our problem as they resent being excluded from society and return the so-called "favour" of welfare by committing the most crime and anti social behaviour.

But why are you blaming this on "the north"? Your scenario isn't one I recognise. There are many thriving economic regions outside of the South East you know, have a look around before you start to stereotype.