Interns

[BlasterBates]

It appears that most of the problems in banks are caused by people working long hours. There was the UBS trader who lost 2 billion last year, apparently he was doing all nighters.

Working more than 8 hours a day is counter productive, anyone with more than one or two years work experience knows that.

[EternalOptimist]

A lot of bolks talked on this thread imho.

I have had phases over the last 20 years where I have worked 16 hour days, high pressure. Only 8 might be at my desk, but solving major problems whilst in the shower, in the traffic or even asleep is not unusual.
Some people can hack it, some cant. But this guy was a volunteer, it was up to him to say 'fck this' and some do.

plus when I was this guys age, I worked 24 hour days for three or four days on the run, under the most stressful conditions known to mankind, and there are thousands over in Afghanistan and other places doing the same right now.

[doodab]

A lot of bolks talked on this thread imho.

I have had phases over the last 20 years where I have worked 16 hour days, high pressure. Only 8 might be at my desk, but solving major problems whilst in the shower, in the traffic or even asleep is not unusual.
Some people can hack it, some cant. But this guy was a volunteer, it was up to him to say 'fck this' and some do.

plus when I was this guys age, I worked 24 hour days for three or four days on the run, under the most stressful conditions known to mankind, and there are thousands over in Afghanistan and other places doing the same right now.

Yes, but the point I was making is that you don't do a better job working those sort of hours regularly. For a few days or a week you'll see an increase in productivity but in the long run it's counterproductive, after a few weeks of it people actually get less done overall than than if they went home on time every day.

[EternalOptimist]

Yes, but the point I was making is that you don't do a better job working those sort of hours regularly. For a few days or a week you'll see an increase in productivity but in the long run it's counterproductive, after a few weeks of it people actually get less done overall than than if they went home on time every day.

and if I had an intern or a young soldier I would burn them out. To see what their optimum performance level was. what would you do ?


these guys are gone in a year, and my bonus is on the line. what would you do ?

the boss is on my back, the other team is outperforming me. what would you do ?


this aint no playground Doodab

[minestrone]

In the banks I have been in by the time everyone and their dog has had their shot at looking busy and involved the amount of productive work that gets done is usually minimal.

[Mich the Tester]

plus when I was this guys age, I worked 24 hour days for three or four days on the run, under the most stressful conditions known to mankind, and there are thousands over in Afghanistan and other places doing the same right now.

Yep, fighting a war, under highly trained officers who take responsibility for the well being of their charges. If they get injured, the army provides world class medical care and psychological help. They're intensively trained to do the job having been through tough selection. And again; it's to fight a war, not to push a bit of paper around the place with some numbers on it. You can debate the sense and nonsense of war all night, but working people into serious psychological problems for the sake of investment wanking is screwed up and wrong.

[SueEllen]

and if I had an intern or a young soldier I would burn them out. To see what their optimum performance level was. what would you do ?


these guys are gone in a year, and my bonus is on the line. what would you do ?

the boss is on my back, the other team is outperforming me. what would you do ?


this aint no playground Doodab

Doing it with a soldier/member of the armed forces is different from doing it with an intern. Why?

Armed forces are tested and then selected for mental and physical toughness interns are not.

Also as interns are cheap and if you are clever you can get more.

[doodab]

this aint no playground Doodab

If you can have 100 units of work or 90 units of work, which would you prefer?

The evidence is that over timespans greater than a few weeks you get more work out of people if they are working at an optimal level than if they are worked harder. Not more work per hour, but more total work. I would think that if you are paying someone a salary you want to get the maximum value for your money, which means extracting the maximum amount of work from them, and that comes from having them work ~40 hours a week or thereabouts.

This is why Henry Ford cut the working week in his factory to 5x8 hour days from 6x9.

"This decision to put into effect the short work week is not sudden. We have been going toward it for three or four years. We have been feeling our way. We have during much of this time operated on a five day basis. But we have paid only for five days and not for six. And whenever a department was especially rushed it went back to six days -- to forty-eight hours. Now we know from our experience in changing from six to five days and back again that we can get at least as great production in five days as we can in six, and we shall probably get a greater, for the pressure will bring better methods. A full week's wage for a short week's work will pay."

There are quite a few studies across different industries, countries and times that say the same thing.

Basically by working stupidly long hours you are depriving your clients of work which they have paid for. It's unprofessional.

[EternalOptimist]

If you can have 100 units of work or 90 units of work, which would you prefer?

now I know you are not that dumb.


I can get 25 units of work, which will save my ass/job. or I can get 100 units of work which will help the company 4 times more. mmmm let me think.



youse guys are all talking about whats nice, and morally right and namby pamby goody goody.

I think we ARE in a war. Let me ask you airy fairy tarts one question

if my company acts like it was in a war (and acts legally) and your airy fairy, arty farty, wishy washy, namby pamby, mumsnet basket case company does not
who will go out of business ?

get real guys. we are the shock troops of the future. its a war. the enemy are the competion and the wanky attitudes that are making themselves heard more and more in a once proud forum

[AtW]

There was the UBS trader who lost 2 billion last year, apparently he was doing all nighters.

I reckon it was because audit guys were working 9-5:30pm