Zero hours contracts

[Zippy]

WPCS but it's actually worse than that. One of my neighbours is on one of these contracts(minimum wage) and the 'flexibility' is all one way. She gets a text to tell her the shifts for the following week, organises childcare etc, turns up and they tell her she's not needed. No pay (even for the substantial travelling time) and if she's paid for childcare it's cost her a shedload. It's a fooking disgrace.

[darmstadt]

But those in power, regardless of who is, like it, as it 'massages' the unemployment figures. People on zero hour contracts are considered employed but in reality they're actually only part-part timers and treated worse than some, if not most, part time staff. Bring back the unions, they wouldn't stand for this :-)

[original PM]

This reminds me of back in the day when I was working in recruitment.

You would always send in at least 1 or 2 more people than had been asked for - because you knew not everyone would turn up for work.

If you got extra often the company would take them to cover their own staffs absences or some would get sent home.

Also yes there was chance you would not be working 5 days a week and yes this was ad hoc.

And some did get sent home half way through the shift.

But guess what - those who continually turned up and did a good job eventually got taken on permanently.

The fact is if you are on a zero hours contract then you know the work will not be stable - not saying I agree with it but it is what it is.

[BlueSharp]

Zero hour contracts = really bad. Just an excuse for minimum paid workers to get treated even more like tulipe. Like someone said, employers can and often do treat the worker like tulipe knowing if they kick off they can just get someone else in.

I know someone who regularly gets calls with an hours notice pretty much saying, you're working today. No asking. If worker says no that's pretty much it for their job.
Then again, same person was also scheduled to work for the day, turned up to be told sorry don't need you now you can go home. Sod that.

How many of us would put up with that for £100s/day let alone minimum wage?

But flip the zero hour contract argument on its head, what's the alternative that employers would use to access a flexible work force? Cash in Hand, now the government could not tax the low paid and that's never going to happen! The worker would also be in a worse position with no contract at all.

Perhaps there should be a limit to how long a worker can be employed for on a zero hour contract before some minimum hour could be set.

[CoolCat]

Re "That's why the racism we see from unions and the Daily Mail is rational, both cater for people who know that if the competition in the UK job market increases they will sink because they aren't smart enough to compete, or have let what skills they have decay. They don't believe coloured people are inferior, they fear that they are smarter. The fact that most immigrants to the UK are white is actually worse for these racial inferiorists because they can't kid themselves that being white gives them an edge."

you have lost me, not sure what you are trying to say...

I could interpret this many different ways

re "racism we see from unions" where? mostly like most of the establishment its a very one sided racism, for instance a music festival last weekend made a big song and dance about "only hiring Nepalese Gurkhas as our security men"... which is in breach of employment law etc, but NOBODY ever challenges stuff like this

re "if the competition in the UK job market increases they will sink because they aren't smart enough to compete" depends what you mean. Fair and equitable competition where Brits have equal chances in their home country maybe. The mass import of Indian nationals on uncapped ICT visas, for instance, no way.

re "They don't believe coloured people are inferior, they fear that they are smarter" who is they? some people might think this way I guess but I dont know who they are.

re "The fact that most immigrants to the UK are white is actually worse for these racial inferiorists" er no idea what you are going on about. Who are you trying to be critical about? Most people I know are racially unbiased and live in a genuinely integrated way both work and socially, but most people I know are also of the strong opinion that immigration of all kinds has gone too far and is out of control. So I'd like to be able to figure out if I agree with you or not.

For what its worth the worst racism I have ever seen was inside the Indian outsourcers, by one Indian caste on another and towards Brits.

[Scrag Meister]

My daughter has a part time job at Gilly Hicks (part of Abercrombie and Fitch) in Westfield, White City, this is on a zero hour contract and it just dire, sometimes she gets shifts and sometimes she doesn't.

She sometimes has to ring in to see if they need her and quite often they don't.

It is very frustrating for her and she never knows from one week to the next what her hours will be, she is looking for an alternative but nothing around.

This isn't so bad for her as she live with me, and therefore won't be in major tulip if she doesn't have any income, sadly this also applies to people who do have rent to pay but get stung by not being allocated any shifts.

People looking for part time jobs should avoid Gilly Hicks, Abercrombie, Hollister IMHO, as there "contracts" are rubbish.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I realise that I will probably be castigated for this remark but don't we all have a choice? Haven't most of you got good careers because you invested in your education and made wise choices about your future? Zero hours contracts work for some people - if they don't work then shouldn't the individual think about re-training, expanding their skill set and then look for something better

[cowers under table]

[Zippy]

This reminds me of back in the day when I was working in recruitment.

You would always send in at least 1 or 2 more people than had been asked for - because you knew not everyone would turn up for work.

If a supermarket over-orders their produce they have to sell it off very cheap or bin it, so there is a cost to them for cocking it up. Not so with their people.
There should be a cost for over-ordering people - two hours wages sounds about right.

Edit: t my neighbours co at least two people per shift get sent home.

[DodgyAgent]

Next they will be using child labour. Clearly the country needs to create more jobs.
I hope that DA and the other trolls who go on about the work shy will make note of this thread.

Of course the country "needs jobs". join the rest of the clever dicks who have worked this out. Perhaps you can move on and do the truly clever thing and tell us exactly how these jobs are going to be created.

They are not using child labour are they? What some of you do not seem to understand is that zero hour contracts are better than no work at all

The left who create no jobs at all of course diagree - as illustrated by Richard Godwin in the standard:

According to this reasoning, any repeal of hard-earned workers’ rights will allow business to grow. The labour market can never be casual enough for the 21st-century industrialists. If the jobs these business are creating are even less secure than unemployment — what precisely is the point?


The point is my friend that any job is better than no job. And just to remind you that people in work have more chance of getting better jobs than those without work. If people are working in these sort of jobs they are learning the hard way thus equipping themselves to move up the ladder.

[CoolCat]

I realise that I will probably be castigated for this remark but don't we all have a choice? Haven't most of you got good careers because you invested in your education and made wise choices about your future? Zero hours contracts work for some people - if they don't work then shouldn't the individual think about re-training, expanding their skill set and then look for something better

[cowers under table]

Depends. If you have money in the bank, live in an area with possibilities (or are able to move), and a decent education then sure. Sadly some of the abuse takes place where the only schools are sink schools, the children going to those schools have no chance of doing well no matter how bright they are, the local industries (mining, shipbuilding, steel, whatever) have shut and the way the state sponsors council housing means folk have to stay in those areas even when all the decent jobs have gone. Even the best decent people in these areas currently have no chance, not the current generation and not the generation going through the schools. A ruthless employer setting up a warehouse or whatever with such people in the catchment area can abuse rubbish contracts very easily and the workers have little opportunity to do anything else.