Why the poor don't move

[doodab]

Where does this view come from that everyone should ideally be in work?

What's the point of automating people's jobs if we then insist those people get other jobs?

In some conceptions of an ideal world nobody would be forced to do anything they didn't want to do and all human wants and needs would be provided for. We no longer aspire to create such a world, perhaps because we've realised it's impossible, perhaps because those with the ability to do so lack the will.

[Spacecadet]

In some conceptions of an ideal world nobody would be forced to do anything they didn't want to do and all human wants and needs would be provided for. We no longer aspire to create such a world, perhaps because we've realised it's impossible, perhaps because those with the ability to do so lack the will.

Human nature would never allow it.

And it does sound a bit boring

[doodab]

Human nature would never allow it.

And it does sound a bit boring

You need more imagination.

[Spacecadet]

You need more imagination.

I have plenty

I know that there will always be someone (nutter or otherwise) who will want to tip the balance.

[bobspud]

I suppose the thing it boils right down to is - are you willing to live you life in a manner which does not include seeing not working as an option

in essence these people who live in places with no jobs should move - in much the same way as for thousands of years man roamed from place to place to find the best resources.

The fact that the jobs dissapeared 30 years ago due to the government is right now neither here nor there - it happened - you have to move on to keep up

But the trouble is the countryside is nice. Why would a country peasent move away from all the hunting shooting and poaching available so they could move into a crappy town and have to graft?

One of the families that had kids at the same school as our kids had a lovely little country cottage for a council house. It had enough land to grow all their food for the year and the husband was a dab hand with a fishing rod or a rifle. The result was plenty of food for the family and enough money to keep him drunk most of the week when he wasn't shooting Sunday lunch.

Honestly you are asking him to move into Bristol so that he can take a minimum wage job good Luck with that...

[vetran]

But the trouble is the countryside is nice. Why would a country peasent move away from all the hunting shooting and poaching available so they could move into a crappy town and have to graft?

Honestly you are asking him to move into Bristol so that he can take a minimum wage job good Luck with that...

Because the other people grafting are paying for his life of leisure and sooner or later they will refuse to continue to do so. I suspect that time is coming soon.

[Mich the Tester]

Because the other people grafting are paying for his life of leisure and sooner or later they will refuse to continue to do so. I suspect that time is coming soon.

Maybe we aren't paying for his life of leisure, but paying for the consequences of being able to automate all sorts of jobs that people did in the past.

[doodab]

Maybe we aren't paying for his life of leisure, but paying for the consequences of being able to automate all sorts of jobs that people did in the past.

Exactly. This is the price of progress. His life of leisure is just a side effect of widespread plasma tv ownership.

The meek (economically less useful) shall inherit the earth, indeed.

[Mich the Tester]

Exactly. This is the price of progress. His life of leisure is just a side effect of widespread plasma tv ownership.

The meek (economically less useful) shall inherit the earth, indeed.

I went to an exhibition that Clientco ran, to do with industrial automation. What I saw was at the same time very impressive and rather scary. I knew we could automate things like baggage handling, package recognition, writing recognition for post sorting, cargo loading and so on, but I also saw some of the things technical universities are working on. For example, bricklaying is a skilled job that takes many years to master, and the building trade has lots of decently paid work for good brickies. It's quite a difficult craft; anyone can follow a DIY course to build simple garden wall, but when it comes to arches, windows, special patterns, recycled bricks and so on it gets quite difficult. Then there's the experience and ' feeling' aspect, to recognise when the cement mix needs a little more sand or a little less water and the ability to adapt on the way; you'd think this is an example of a job that humans do better than machines.

Then I saw a bricklaying machine. It's quite a large unwieldy thing, only useful in factories for making pre-fab walls, and the problem with that is that when you put pre-fab brick walls in a truck and then drive them to the location, they fall apart, so at the moment there's no commercial application except possibly on huge projects. But, they're working hard to reduce the size of it and showed a much smaller and simpler prototype that you could put in the back of a transit van, and are starting to put the more complex functionality into the small version. I watched as the big machine built a brick wall, and then asked the guy at the machine if it could do something more complex, like an arch or a herringbone pattern. He opened a screen, shifted some lines about on the drawing to make an arch, and lo and behold, the thing pushed out a metal plate construction which it bent to an arch, and then started bricklaying over the arch. I came back a while later and the arch was finished, so the guy showed me a herringbone pattern. Apparently it can 'feel' the cement with sensors and demand a different mix from the (obviously automated) cement mixing machine as it went along. Now then, what happens when you can fit this whole thing in the back of a transit van and produce enough of these machines to sell them at about the same price as a transit van(which was also built by robots) ? How many jobs are at risk?

I found it a bit scary.

On the same theme, look how cobbled streets are being built in Holland these days;

[Spacecadet]

I went to an exhibition that Clientco ran, to do with industrial automation. What I saw was at the same time very impressive and rather scary. I knew we could automate things like weaving, threshing, seed spreading for crops and so on, but I also saw some of the things technical universities are working on. For example, scribes have a skilled job that takes many years to master, and the government, banks and trades have lots of decently paid work for good scribes. It's quite a difficult craft; anyone can follow a DIY course to write simple document, but when it comes to legal matters, financial records, government declarations and so on it gets quite difficult. Then there's the experience and 'feeling' aspect, to recognise when the ink needs a little more or a little less water or the paper needs smoothing before use and the ability to adapt on the way; you'd think this is an example of a job that humans do better than machines.

Then I saw a writing machine. It's quite a large unwieldy thing, only useful in large establishments for making large volumes of documents, and the problem with that is that when you small volumes of documents, the machine needs resetting which takes a lot of time, so at the moment there's no commercial application except possibly on huge projects. But, they're working hard to reduce the size of it and showed a much smaller and simpler prototype that you could put in every office, and are starting to put the more complex functionality into the small version. I watched as the machine printed off a document, and then asked the guy at the machine if it could do something more complex, like a picture or a newspaper. He opened a screen, shifted some lines about on the drawing to make a newspaper, and lo and behold, the thing pushed out a printed news paper. I came back a while later and the printer was still pushing out documents, each one different with apparently little or no input required from the operators. Apparently it can 'feel' the ink with sensors and demand a different ink from the (obviously automated) inking machine as it went along. Now then, what happens when you can fit this whole thing in office and produce enough of these machines to sell them at about the same price as it costs to employ a scribe for a year ? How many jobs are at risk?

I found it a bit scary.

A made a slight change for you

Over the past 200-300 years a lot of jobs have been automated out of existence. New jobs eventually fill their place and overall productivity goes up.