Left vs right - the unfillable gulf

[sasguru]

It seems on this forum that if you have a rational mind and look at the facts, and form chains of logical reasoning, rather than rant like a retarded cretin, then you are accused of being lefty.

Some examples:

1. DA accuses me of being lefty because I draw a causal chain from the liberalisation of financial markets during Thatcher's reign to the current economic problems, mostly caused by, guess what, the financial markets being silly.

2. Xog accuses me of being lefty because I question the scale of health tourism. Are we supposed to make up some large number with no evidence and run with that, because it suits our prejudices?

Just like there are valid and reasonable questions to ask about climate change, there is a deep Conservative philosophy that is worth exploring. However the idiotic and low-IQ arguments put forward on this forum make people lose credibility.

[Lockhouse]

It seems on this forum that if you have a rational mind and look at the facts, and form chains of logical reasoning, rather than rant like a retarded cretin, then you are accused of being lefty.

Some examples:

1. DA accuses me of being lefty because I draw a causal chain from the liberalisation of financial markets during Thatcher's reign to the current economic problems, mostly caused by, guess what, the financial markets being silly.

2. Xog accuses me of being lefty because I question the scale of health tourism. Are we supposed to make up some large number with no evidence and run with that, because it suits our prejudices?

Just like there are valid and reasonable questions to ask about climate change, there is a deep Conservative philosophy that is worth exploring. However the idiotic and low-IQ arguments put forward on this forum make people lose credibility.

You are so up yourself it's untrue.

[Spacecadet]

The Left and Right are dead in this country, bigger battles are coming. I'll get my tinfoil hat.

WHS

All the main 3 political parties are so close to center that it makes little difference. Left and right are just terms used to divide the masses

[amcdonald]

WHS

All the main 3 political parties are so close to center that it makes little difference. Left and right are just terms used to divide the masses

There is a centre left parties, a socialist party and then the loony party

[sasguru]

You are so up yourself it's untrue.

Thanks for proving my point.
Rather than deal with the facts of my post, all I get is some vague, meaningless bollux.

[VectraMan]

The left don't live in the real world, or at least not one that exists anymore. Trade Unions' raison d'etre was to improve the appalling conditions in factories, i.e. safety, giving the workers some rights, etc. So essentially, they've already won, and it was a good thing that they did. And the same with socialists in general: we now have the welfare state, free education for all, free health care for all, and their goal of destroying class divisions and improving social mobility has largely been achieved. Easy to be cynical about it, but the reality is nearly everyone is what we'd call middle class, and there's no end of council estate millionaires - your family background isn't the obstacle it was.

So the socialists won, and for the most part it's good. But there's no need for them any more. They should retire gracefully. Instead we have is leftist politicians who want to convince everybody none of this happened, that we're all still oppressed by a silent rich majority, that the socialist movement did in fact fail to achieve any of its goals. It's pretty clear they're in it for their own self-interest, not for the people they claim to represent.

And as for the right, the problem with the right is they tend to attract nutters. The Conservatives are quite moderate, and that's good, but there's always that lurking danger that they'll do something stupid, like have an EU referrendum to appease the nutter element.

[vetran]

Thanks for proving my point.
Rather than deal with the facts of my post, all I get is some vague, meaningless bollux.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

[vetran]

left and right are extremes.

most of the arguments centre around the centre.
I imagine most posters on here believe the eligible weak need assistance from somewhere. Its the definition of eligible,weak,assistance and somewhere most people argue about.

Left of centre believe that everyone who isn't a millionaire regardless of where they came from need subsidy to a similar level as a millionaire. Paid for by the 'Rich'.

Right of centre believe only those who we decide we are responsible for that cannot (not will not) need support to a level that is humane and this should be paid for by all of us with millionaires contributing a fair share.


Left argument
The poor of Africa need government supplied aid and we should bankrupt the rich to pay for it.

Right Argument
The poor of Africa need help, however Aid will go to the corrupt rulers so we should encourage a more direct approach , by encouraging capitalism and big society style initiatives soon Africa will be an MEDC.

[Old Hack]

Thanks for proving my point.
Rather than deal with the facts of my post, all I get is some vague, meaningless bollux.

Oh, the irony, it hurts, it really hurts, stop it, I have stitches in....

[xoggoth]

2. Xog accuses me of being lefty because I question the scale of health tourism

Checked that health tourism link and I did nowt of the sort, made no reference to you at all. You can always tell a lefty by the fact that they accuse people of calling them lefties without foundation!!!!

Seriously, you were one of the people I had in mind as sensible "lefties" who make some good informed arguments (if you would stop calling everyone cretin all the time I would take you off my ignore list) but some comments on that thread do illustrate my point of lack of focus on the issue, of seeing things in much wider terms. We should compare the cost of health tourism to rip off by bankers? Why? Even leaving aside the fact that our banking sector, unlike health tourism, has a huge net plus for our economy, should a real problem be dismissed because it's less than some other problem? It's illogical captain.