Cameron is an idiot

[SueEllen]

I know a lot about communist politics and I state categorically that Cameron has got a lot in common with commie liars. Labour also, have not made my mind about Lib Dems yet - either honest idiots or liars or both.

Lib Dems are both.

It depends on the group of Labour or Tory politicians they have to get into bed with to run councils etc.

[doodab]

I disagree

he has taken the initiative away from UKIP. Are labour now going to deny the British people a referendum so has cornered them. If the UK stays in the sceptics will not be able to claim a popular mandate. if the UK comes out very little will change except that the Navy can get back to blowing the Spaniards and French out of the water if they then dare to fish in our waters.
Big business does not like it because the EU protects their monopolies from competition from new companies which is a good sign.

I think it is a masterstroke by Cameron and by delaying it for 7 years he can give the rest of Europe the chance to give way to British demands. If they dont (and the removal of GB from the EU will strip a large percentage of the bureaucrats power away from them as well as set a precedence for other countries to follow.)

Well done Dave

WHS. And it really really hurts me in the bum and other important places to say that.

It would be a very good idea if all EU members, not just the UK, had a sensible discussion about what happens next.

[Mich the Tester]

I think it is a masterstroke by Cameron and by delaying it for 7 years he can give the rest of Europe the chance to give way to British demands. If they dont (and the removal of GB from the EU will strip a large percentage of the bureaucrats power away from them as well as set a precedence for other countries to follow.)

We'll see if it's a masterstroke, but I think and certainly hope that some 'leaders' in Europe will now start addressing
the concerns their own people have about the EU. While the French and German foreign ministers came out with their standard responses of 'in or out' and 'join in fully or not at all' (with Fabius making a thoroughly ignorant comparison with football clubs and rugby), I noticed Mrs Merkel was rather more tactful and circumspect, saying that she will certainly want to negotiate with Britain and wants to keep Britain in. As it stands right now in Europe, Mrs Merkel is the one with the biggest say in things, not only because of Germany's economic strength, but because of all the 'leaders' in Europe, she's the one who has a real brain.

I think Cameron might be able to get a very good deal that keeps Britain in on new terms.

[OwlHoot]

How many times have the Conservative party promised a referendum yet never followed up?

Absolutely, and this one is subject to getting agreement from the EU on more favourable terms for the UK.

So no deal (which is inevitable) then presumably no referendum, unless his hand is forced.

[sasguru]

As others have noted, political masterstroke by Cameron.

1. Steals UKIP fire, takes away their single policy from them.
2. Forces Labour and Lib-Dems into a corner - if they oppose they are undemocratic, if they agree looks like Cameron sets the agenda
3. He can go to Euro leaders and say, look I'd like to stay in but give me something to sell to my voters.
And believe me, apart from cretins like Fabius, most Euro leaders understand that getting rid of the 2nd/3rd largest economy is Europe is not a good idea.

AtW, your understanding of politics is naive. Stick to programming.

[amcdonald]

After his cast iron guarantee of a referendum before, why should we trust him ?

[darmstadt]

I think you'll find that whatever European leaders are saying, privately they're probably thinking one of two things, either 'tulip, maybe our voters want that' or 'twat, politcal suicide is not my way.' As it is, whatever Merkel is saying, the only concessions that the German government would be willing to give are cosmetic. Cameron is bowing to peer pressure, probably the 1922 old boys are threatening to out him :-)

[cailin maith]

why should we trust him ?

We shouldn't .... like all politician, he's a lying sack of tulip.

[Waldorf]

After his cast iron guarantee of a referendum before, why should we trust him ?

Cameron only said that he would have a referendum if he had been Prime Minister, by the time he did become PM, the Lisbon Treaty had been ratified, officially this was done on 16/07/08, so this was done by Gordon Brown and Labour etc.

There was nothing Cameron could do about a ratified treaty once he became PM, other than do what he has now promised, ie an attempt to renegotiate and then ask the people whether they wish to stay in etc. I have no doubts that if he wins the next election, the referendum will take place.

[d000hg]

As others have noted, political masterstroke by Cameron.

1. Steals UKIP fire, takes away their single policy from them.
2. Forces Labour and Lib-Dems into a corner - if they oppose they are undemocratic, if they agree looks like Cameron sets the agenda
3. He can go to Euro leaders and say, look I'd like to stay in but give me something to sell to my voters.
And believe me, apart from cretins like Fabius, most Euro leaders understand that getting rid of the 2nd/3rd largest economy is Europe is not a good idea.

AtW, your understanding of politics is naive. Stick to programming.

Ouch, I agree with you.

Did he definitely say we'd definitely have a referendum regardless the result of negotiation talks with the EU? Presumably he is under no obligation to remain impartial - he can call a referendum and then tell everyone they should vote IN?