Spain OMG!

[Ignis Fatuus]

So whilst you may have a point the question is then why are so many jobs taken offshore? And also why is the minimum wage an arbitrary amount with little consideration of local circumstances (cost of housing, education, employment rates, crime etc etc). It is because like so many other things it is mainly political.

You have a couple of good points there.

Unlike some I could mention.

[DodgyAgent]

You have a couple of good points there.

Unlike some I could mention.

That makes two for the year

[doodab]

Minimum wage legislation is not actually the problem most of the time. The real issue is rarely employing people its employing them legally in such a way that you can get shot of them if you have to.

And that is the problem with most EU countries. You don't want to employ more staff because you can't get rid when the times get tough (unlike the US and to a slightly lesser extent here).

I'd argue that creating large numbers of unemployed people at the first sniff of a downturn just intensifies it, so "restrictive labour markets" actually act to smooth out ups and downs and reduce the intensity of downturns. I also think that in a high skill high value add economy the need for highly skilled people is more of a constraint on hiring than not being able to get rid of them, in fact getting rid of such people is really a last resort. Better to have flexible working practices like reduced working hours and so on.

[Robinho]

I'd argue that creating large numbers of unemployed people at the first sniff of a downturn just intensifies it, so "restrictive labour markets" actually act to smooth out ups and downs and reduce the intensity of downturns.

Yes just what we need during poor economic times... Money being wasted on superfluous employees companies can't get rid of.

[doodab]

Yes just what we need during poor economic times... Money being wasted on superfluous employees companies can't get rid of.

It's not wasted, they get it and they spend it which keeps it moving around.

[administrator]

tulipe, not had time for news today, wondered what had spooked the stock market. Those pics from Spain and not Greece I take it? Europe - the crisis that just keeps on giving. Can't be long until the people of Greece go tell their leaders to go **** themselves, looks like the Spaniards aren't far behind.

[sasguru]

Yes just what we need during poor economic times... Money being wasted on superfluous employees companies can't get rid of.

In Germany they take the long term view: in the last few years the government has paid employers to keep on staff. And Germany is the most successful economy in Europe.
Most people change their minds when evidence appears that contradicts their beliefs. Unless they're thick, of course.

[darmstadt]

Interestingly, yesterday, in the news, if you are German, and a Catholic, you have to pay an extra 9% of your wages to the church, at source. The only way you can stop, is by declaring you are not a catholic, but then you lose the right to holy communion, etc.

Be interesting to see how many Scots would decline their faith over a 9% tax hike...

Slightly wrong. Its actually 9% of your income tax (except for Bayern and Baden-Württemburg where its 8%) and if you pay this tax it doesn't just go to the Catholic church but also the Evangelical church as well (it different states it can also go to other religions such as Jewish and Unitarian.) It is not law but some religions (the Catholics naturally as they're not rich enough) have decided that if you don't pay, you don't pray. We'll see...

(What is funny when Brits some over here and register, as you have to, they forget to tick the box to say that they belong to no religion and wonder what this extra deduction is on their payslips. It can be a bit of a bugger to get out of as well.)

[Robinho]

It's not wasted, they get it and they spend it which keeps it moving around.

Of course it's waste, people are being paid and not being productive, this is the very essence of waste.

[Robinho]

In Germany they take the long term view: in the last few years the government has paid employers to keep on staff. And Germany is the most successful economy in Europe.
Most people change their minds when evidence appears that contradicts their beliefs. Unless they're thick, of course.

Norway is actually the most successful economy in Europe by a considerable margin.