Can one really think straight if one hasn't undergone rigorous training ....

[nomadd]

...in a hard, highly logical subject at a decent university e.g. maths, physics, engineering, even computer science, and mastered the course with a very good grade?

In my first week at University (a top UK one known for it's Computer Science degrees) I tried to strike up a conversation with the Head Of Dept. on the relative merits of the Z80 v 6502, 8 bit micro-processors which were revolutionising computing at that time. His reply was "I dunno, they are all a black boxes to me." He then spent several minutes detailing the last machine he'd been intimately involved in - which was 30 years prior. Oh, and how he hated the influx of women into computing.

That kind of set the whole tone of my University experience: those who can do, those who can't teach.

Aren't those who have done so snapped up by businesses, for good reason?

Nope. I probably got the worst grades in my class, but that's because I spent all my time working hard outside of Uni. writing embedded software for local companies. Every interview I attended after graduation for top London businesses (Banks, Software Houses, etc.) resulted in an offer. The same couldn't be said for those folks who just had "a good degree." Demonstrable experience and the ability to show you can take the initiative count for far more than a piece of paper. In the 27 years since I took my Comp. Sci. degree, I never been questioned about it in an interview - which clearly demonstrates what most most employers think about them.

A degree simply means you can regurgitate, irrespective of your grade. Thinking and delivering are entirely different skills.

[sasguru]

Are you implying that these are bedfellows? .

Not necessarily - but its certainly easier to BS a history degree than a "hard" one.

[sasguru]

Though he might have a point. If you ignore Brown. And Heath. And Macmillan.

Brown - PhD in history. Shows its all BS. Famously admitted he couldn't do Maths.
Heath and Mac: PPE or similar at a guess.

[sasguru]

In my first week at University (a top UK one known for it's Computer Science degrees) I tried to strike up a conversation with the Head Of Dept. on the relative merits of the Z80 v 6502, 8 bit micro-processors which were revolutionising computing at that time. His reply was "I dunno, they are all a black boxes to me." He then spent several minutes detailing the last machine he'd been intimately involved in - which was 30 years prior. Oh, and how he hated the influx of women into computing.

That kind of set the whole tone of my University experience: those who can do, those who can't teach.



Nope. I probably got the worst grades in my class, but that's because I spent all my time working hard outside of Uni. writing embedded software for local companies. Every interview I attended after graduation for top London businesses (Banks, Software Houses, etc.) resulted in an offer. The same couldn't be said for those folks who just had "a good degree." Demonstrable experience and the ability to show you can take the initiative count for far more than a piece of paper. In the 27 years since I took my Comp. Sci. degree, I never been questioned about it in an interview - which clearly demonstrates what most most employers think about them.

A degree simply means you can regurgitate, irrespective of your grade. Thinking and delivering are entirely different skills.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that a university course in a hard subject is the only way to learn to think logically, but it certainly helps.

[sasguru]

Maths teaches you to work in a logical set of steps, but not necessarily to think.

If you think that you have no idea.

[SueEllen]

Brown - PhD in history. Shows its all BS. Famously admitted he couldn't do Maths.
Heath and Mac: PPE or similar at a guess.

Least John Major could do arithmetic and make figures fit.

[sasguru]

Least John Major could do arithmetic and make figures fit.

He could?

[sasguru]

Correlation equals causation obviously.

Oh and seeing as you missed my point entirely - Meejah Studies by any chance?

[SueEllen]

Oh and seeing as you missed my point entirely - Meejah Studies by any chance?

I wish.

Though I think they had to do more work than those doing American Studies and Social Anthropology.

[Mich the Tester]

I'm a tester; I'm not supposed to think straight. I find the crap in a system by thinking and acting in ways that you wouldn't want a user to do.


At least, that's my excuse.