Can one really think straight if one hasn't undergone rigorous training ....

[sasguru]

I thought that Philosophy gave you a grounding in critical thinking (the Socratic Method an' all that...)

Properly done, yes.

[Gibbon]

I thought that Philosophy gave you a grounding in critical thinking (the Socratic Method an' all that...)

But only after you have mastered maths according to Plato.

[Gibbon]

The Answer:

Yes, there are examples, but a rigorous course in any subject will generally improve this.

[nomadd]

...as I have pointed out before most life changiing advances have been created by the public sector: penicillin, the atomic bomb, the internet and the WWW etc.

In a word: funding. Most Noble prize winners these days are funded via private enterprises, either partially or fully. The 'public sector' is playing less of a role (with the exception of the insane amount of funding being poured into projects under the guise of 'National Security' - a farce which has been long debated in the editorials of Science, Scientific American, New Scientist, etc.)

Ps. The Scientific Revolution and the Industrial Revolution were not 'created by the public sector.'

[sasguru]

Ps. The Scientific Revolution and the Industrial Revolution were not 'created by the public sector.'

Most people think that but its wrong. Industrial policy ensured Britain became an exporter of high value wool products rather than wool - this allowed the funding of the industrial revolution.
Note that I'm not suggesting the government funded anything directly, they created the conditions for certain things to happen.

[nomadd]

Most people think that but its wrong. Industrial policy ensured Britain became an exporter of high value wool products rather than wool - this allowed the funding of the industrial revolution.
Note that I'm not suggesting the government funded anything directly, they created the conditions for certain things to happen.

The Scientific Revolution didn't start in Britain.

As regards the Industrial Revolution, the State provided the cultural and legal conditions, but the creation and flourishing of that revolution was left solely in the hands of private entrepreneurs; without them, Britain would have achieved nothing.

EDIT: And we can take Faraday as a fine example of a brilliant thinker who had no rigorous degree-level training in thinking or any other subject.

[EternalOptimist]

what does zeity have to say about training people to think straight. He's in the business , aint he ?

[d000hg]

If you think that you have no idea.

Maths certainly doesn't teach you how to debate or argue. Which is probably why when someone puts up an argument, you have to resort to petty insult.

My degree was in a 'serious subject' as you put it. You spend X years learning stuff other people already know. As compared to History, where you have to come to your own conclusions and be able to defend them.

HTH.


cue an all-too-predictable jibe about how I have imaginary friends and am therefore an idiot, rather than an attempt to enter reasonable discorse

[d000hg]

In fact, I'm not really sure you actually can rigorously train people to think

I reckon you can, isn't that the entire point of teaching debating?

[doodab]

Maths certainly doesn't teach you how to debate or argue.

I studied maths and I mastered debating until I couldn't think straight