The American Dream

[sasguru]

A few historical examples...

Free market = Hong Kong
Less free market = China

Free market = USA
Not free Market = Soviet Russia

Congrats, you must have passed CSE level economics, for that seems to be the level of your discourse.

Now that is changing the goalposts. No-one is claiming that "top-down communistic economic policies" for want of a better description has ever been better than some version of laissez faire economics.
The debate is how much of the free market is good and my argument is that excessive free market policies instigated in the 80s have led us to our current position.
Further the Rhineland version of capitalism is demonstrably superior to the anglo Saxon version: after all no one is looking to the UK to sort out the European crisis are they?

[Robinho]

Congrats, you must have passed CSE level economics, for that seems to be the level of your discourse.

Now that is changing the goalposts. No-one is claiming that "top-down communistic economic policies" for want of a better description has ever been better than some version of laissez faire economics.
The debate is how much of the free market is good and my argument is that excessive free market policies instigated in the 80s have led us to our current position.
Further the Rhineland version of capitalism is demonstrably superior to the anglo Saxon version: after all no one is looking to the UK to sort out the European crisis are they?

Can you explain how excessive free market policies have caused this recession then?

I have explained why i think government caused it, so it seems fair that you should explain why this isn't the case and why it was the free market itself.

[doodab]

The early USA was much like what i describe.

Modern day Somalia is probably closer

[sasguru]

Can you explain how excessive free market policies have caused this recession then?

I have explained why i think government caused it, so it seems fair that you should explain why this isn't the case and why it was the free market itself.

Actually no you haven't.

The financial big bang in the City in 1986 and the corresponding Wall Street deregulation under Reagan in the 80s led to the creation of an over-powerful and under-regulated financial sector in the UK and US. With its emphasis on creation of innovative but risky and untransparent financial instruments (such as the packaged mortgage bonds that caused such havoc in 2007) and emphasis on short term profit it affected all aspects of the economy - diverting the best brains and other resources away from productive sectors of the economy.
Now in a free market that's exactly what you'd expect, people will go for the biggest reward. and a tiny minority did well out of it.
But the end result is an impoverished Britain in contrast to the more heavily regulated Germany which now has the upper hand strategically and economically and dominates Europe like a collosus. Not militarily, but that follows from the other two just as a poor economy means you are weak militarily in the long run.
So strategically, the free market, laissez faire, call it what you will has led to our weakness.

[oracleslave]

Congrats, you must have passed CSE level economics,

untransparent

Perhaps English was more his thing?

[sasguru]

Perhaps English was more his thing?

Perhaps being a pointless pedant with nothing useful to say is more yours?

[sasguru]

Perhaps English was more his thing?

Oh and also epic fail on your part. Now back in yer box, cretin

HTH

[oracleslave]

Perhaps being a pointless pedant with nothing useful to say is more yours?

Highlighting your stupidity whilst you point the finger at others is never pointless.

HTHBIKIW

[Robinho]

Actually no you haven't.

The financial big bang in the City in 1986 and the corresponding Wall Street deregulation under Reagan in the 80s led to the creation of an over-powerful and under-regulated financial sector in the UK and US. With its emphasis on creation of innovative but risky and untransparent financial instruments (such as the packaged mortgage bonds that caused such havoc in 2007) and emphasis on short term profit it affected all aspects of the economy - diverting the best brains and other resources away from productive sectors of the economy.
Now in a free market that's exactly what you'd expect, people will go for the biggest reward. and a tiny minority did well out of it.
But the end result is an impoverished Britain in contrast to the more heavily regulated Germany which now has the upper hand strategically and economically and dominates Europe like a collosus. Not militarily, but that follows from the other two just as a poor economy means you are weak militarily in the long run.
So strategically, the free market, laissez faire, call it what you will has led to our weakness.

It's nothing to do with the packages and all to do with the distortion of risk by the hand of the government. Government set interest rates made it stupid to not take out a large mortgages and loans instead of saving, they also backed certain mortgages taking away the risk and introducing moral hazard. Fiat money mean't there was essentially an infinite supply of money for mortgages which drove and drove the property prices up attracting more buyers. Eventually it all reaches a tipping point and the world goes to hell. But now the banks are wildly over-leveraged and have to be bailed out.

The boom would not be possible without fiat currency, market-set interest rates and the government staying out of mortgage financing.

[sasguru]

:

Highlighting your stupidity whilst you point the finger at others is never pointless.

HTHBIKIW

You've only succeeded in highlighting yours. Well done.