Rain, rain, rain

[d000hg]

Is three months not long enough?

I thought you meant the torrential rain of the last 1-2 weeks.

[Old Hack]

Had a lovely morning, so went out on the bike for a cheeky 20 miler. 10 miles in the heavens opened and it hasn't stopped. Apparently like this for a few more hours. May not need to drive to the rhynes for a paddle tomorrow....

[minestrone]

I'm trying to guess which one of my running jackets will let in the least water this morning.

[TimberWolf]

I've got ski trousers that are described as water resistant, but sadly their resistance to water ingress is quite low. So I've sprayed a can of poundland waterproof spray on them, and they still leak, though this is down to the poundland stuff being tulip. My jacket also leaks after a bit, even after similar waterproof treatment. Surely there must be a way to waterproof stuff without paying silly money for high cost brands. Lard or something.

Silverstone are asking punters not to arrive by car for Saturday's practise session and are refunding tickets

[doodab]

I've got ski trousers that are described as water resistant, but sadly their resistance to water ingress is quite low. So I've sprayed a can of poundland waterproof spray on them, and they still leak, though this is down to the poundland stuff being tulip. My jacket also leaks after a bit, even after similar waterproof treatment. Surely there must be a way to waterproof stuff without paying silly money for high cost brands. Lard or something.

Silverstone are asking punters not to arrive by car for Saturday's practise session and are refunding tickets

The waterproof spray repels water and prevents the outer material becoming sodden, but if the jacket isn't waterproof to begin with it's fighting a losing battle. FWIW I have a fairly expensive branded softshell that is "water resistant" and while it's ok in a light shower a serious downpour causes water to soak in around the shoulders. A proper waterproof will use fabrics with a breathable but waterproof membrane bonded to the outer layer (i.e. goretex) and have taped seams and suchlike so that it is water proof as opposed to water resistant. The flip side is that you will get quite a bit more sweaty in the waterproof, even one with expensive high tech breathable membranes. The main difference between expensive "top of the range" waterproofs and the cheap ones is how breathable they are as they are all waterproof. The water resistant softshells are a different matter as their performance can vary quite a bit.

[TimberWolf]

The waterproof spray repels water and prevents the outer material becoming sodden, but if the jacket isn't waterproof to begin with it's fighting a losing battle. FWIW I have a fairly expensive branded softshell that is "water resistant" and while it's ok in a light shower a serious downpour causes water to soak in around the shoulders. A proper waterproof will use fabrics with a breathable but waterproof membrane bonded to the outer layer (i.e. goretex) and have taped seams and suchlike so that it is water proof as opposed to water resistant. The flip side is that you will get quite a bit more sweaty in the waterproof, even one with expensive high tech breathable membranes. The main difference between expensive "top of the range" waterproofs and the cheap ones is how breathable they are as they are all waterproof. The water resistant softshells are a different matter as their performance can vary quite a bit.

I'm not too bothered about getting sweaty, sweat's warmer than rain as long as it can't evaporate. I've got an effective waterproof jacket that is 100% waterproof and crunches up into the size of a small apple. It's not gortex or anything fancy and I'll be looking for something similar for the legs given that I won't pay gortex prices, or am particularly convinced by breathability*. Shame my ski trousers aren't up to the job.

* If the material allows warm vapour through, that's heat lost. I gather than a high temperature differential must exist for vapour to escape - it's similar to sweating sweating. The more effective they are a insulators, the worse they are at breathing.

[doodab]

I'm not too bothered about getting sweaty, sweat's warmer than rain as long as it can't evaporate.

It doesn't stay that way for long though as it tends to soak into your other clothes and you just end up clammy. For that reason I tend to go for things with pit zips or mesh ventilation panels, as I'm not massively convinced by breathability claims either (especially having tried them).

Plus in many situations, if you are working hard enough to sweat then getting rid of excess heat is more of a problem than trying to retain it. If I'm cold as well, I'll put another layer under the waterproof.

[minestrone]

I have 2 jackets for running, a nike micro fiber thing that is water resistant and gets water proofed every so often, it held up well today but once the slap of vaseline on the nips melts into through the T shirt it loses its protection in that area and your front gets soaked which is the worst area with the wind coming at you.

The other is a concurve packlite gore tex 120 quid effort that is completely useless now, it neither lets sweat out or keeps rain out. I suspect that their is a massive build up of salt in the pores and I need to clean it and water proof again, I was kind of under the impression that gore tex was intrinsically waterproof but I seem to be wrong on that.

Think I will pick up a totally waterproof jacket with decent vents, ignore the marketing hype.

Anyways, I had to walk through a few stretches of flooding today, up to my ankles I was, thinking to myself 'WTF am I doing living here'.

[TimberWolf]

It doesn't stay that way for long though as it tends to soak into your other clothes and you just end up clammy. For that reason I tend to go for things with pit zips or mesh ventilation panels, as I'm not massively convinced by breathability claims either (especially having tried them).

Plus in many situations, if you are working hard enough to sweat then getting rid of excess heat is more of a problem than trying to retain it. If I'm cold as well, I'll put another layer under the waterproof.

The official clothing jargon for the waterproof method of staying warm appears to be "vapour barrier", but interest seems to be limited to amateurs as far as I've seen. Clamminess, as you say, is a potential drawback.

I once come across a great article that explored mathematically various clothing systems, including vapour barriers and reflective layers, but as the article provided no citations or the equations used (except to say they were complicated and non-linear - oh hang on - he might have said they were run numerically), I didn't bookmark. I wouldn't mind reading it again now, but cant find it. Nuisance. I could do with a search engine that returns results of only visited pages, for when I don't bookmark. This is the on-line equivalent of throwing something away and then wanting it again.

[TimberWolf]

I was just reading about a Shackleton Centenary expedition, and they were planning on using vapour barriers for gloves, socks and sleeping bag. So it's not just amateurs. I thought I had read previously that vapour barriers were useful in the extreme cold.
Shackleton Centenary Expedition: The Team Archives

When it gets really cold, we will wear vapour barrier liners between layers of sock, to stop our sweat freezing in the boot's insulation. RBH Designs make an insulated vapour barrier sock using the same "vaprthrm" technology as their gloves, which I found warm and very comfortable when training in Norway....

One way of countering the problem is by sleeping in a vapour barrier liner, which is a sealed, impermeable liner that stops any moisture entering the bag from your body. However, they tend to be clammy and in some cases as noisy as a crisp packet. We'll be bringing vapour barrier liners as a matter of caution and because they boost the temperature rating of the sleeping bag on really cold nights.