Time to revisit HS2?

[VectraMan]

I'm about 4 miles from the route, and being pretty much half way between London and Birmingham, the people round here have the least to gain.

I liked The Register's take on Wifi on trains

That's bad news for High Speed Rail though, as the justification for HS2 (the £17bn high-speed London/Birmingham connection) assumes all travellers are entirely unproductive during transit and thus the 30 minute reduction in travelling time benefits the economy.

Should those passengers start doing useful things in the train then the numbers fall apart, so best stick to LOL Cats and Facebook updating whilst being whisked between the cities.

[barrydidit]

This looks good. I'm surprised. They've come up with a design that's nicely integrated into existing stuff and is leaving the door open for further enhancements.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...eb-version.pdf

Thoughts?

[scooterscot]

Increase capacity right now by introducing double height coaches. Increase tunnel height drop ground level where necessary.

Capacity issues need to be sorted out right not rather than waste money on a Tory wet dream.

[LondonManc]

It won't matter a jot if they don't reduce prices for Monday mornings. It'll just be a faster complete rip-off. £166 on a Monday morning for Manchester to London. Round trip can be done on less than £50 of diesel. Grr.

[barrydidit]

Increase capacity right now by introducing double height coaches. Increase tunnel height drop ground level where necessary.

Capacity issues need to be sorted out right not rather than waste money on a Tory wet dream.

"Thoughts", I asked for. Not "Brain Farts". Given we didn't start any of this 20 years ago, isn't doing it properly now the best option?

[barrydidit]

It won't matter a jot if they don't reduce prices for Monday mornings. It'll just be a faster complete rip-off. £166 on a Monday morning for Manchester to London. Round trip can be done on less than £50 of diesel. Grr.

Don't get too bogged down with the X->London stuff, there are loads of benefits in here for intra-regional things. Looking at proposed journey times to places such as Birmingham or Nottingham from Leeds - with these proposals it makes them daily commutable (cost a factor obviously). The route links places which aren't readily accessible form each other at the moment.

[LondonManc]

Don't get too bogged down with the X->London stuff, there are loads of benefits in here for intra-regional things. Looking at proposed journey times to places such as Birmingham or Nottingham from Leeds - with these proposals it makes them daily commutable (cost a factor obviously). The route links places which aren't readily accessible form each other at the moment.

Manchester to London return is £208 if you go peak morning and come back on the 6:57 or later, i.e. open off peak. Despite reducing the time to 68 minutes, making London a daily commute, the cost prevents it being a daily commute.

Don't tell me not to get bogged down - I'm looking at genuine use cases and don't give a toss about Leeds because I don't live there! Seriously, though, Manchester to Birmingham is a crap run by car, as it is by train. 40 minutes makes it worth commuting for *IF* the price is right in terms of train fare and day rate.

[barrydidit]

Don't tell me not to get bogged down - I'm looking at genuine use cases and don't give a toss about Leeds because I don't live there! Seriously, though, Manchester to Birmingham is a crap run by car, as it is by train. 40 minutes makes it worth commuting for *IF* the price is right in terms of train fare and day rate.

Exactly. I think we've previously agreed about the Northern Powerhouse idea being flawed because of a lack of transport investment. This HS2 stuff is going some way towards addressing that by integrating with the existing network, rather than just providing an expensive funnel to London.

The walk up prices for tickets are stupid, but you can travel cheaper with a bit of forward planning. I'm off to London next week and got a first class return for £80 (off peak admittedly). If you had a gig down there you'd price it up on the cost of a season ticket, not on a £200 walk-up fare. Well, I would.

[LondonManc]

Exactly. I think we've previously agreed about the Northern Powerhouse idea being flawed because of a lack of transport investment. This HS2 stuff is going some way towards addressing that by integrating with the existing network, rather than just providing an expensive funnel to London.

The walk up prices for tickets are stupid, but you can travel cheaper with a bit of forward planning. I'm off to London next week and got a first class return for £80 (off peak admittedly). If you had a gig down there you'd price it up on the cost of a season ticket, not on a £200 walk-up fare. Well, I would.

Monday mornings, it's not possible. I've done Manchester to London at a £37 total offpeak return - £15 out, £22 back. Granted, there will be savings to be made on a season ticket, but that's putting a lot of money at risk for a contract that can get canned at a moment's notice.

[BoredBloke]

Manchester is a nightmare these days. The M60 is too busy and can't cope with the current volume of traffic. It's being made into a smart motorway which means it will be a max of 50mph for the majority of the day. Getting out by train is extortionate and there are hardly any flights to London these days - all the flights out go to Heathrow meaning a long and expensive commute after the flight.

Some form of HS2 will eventually come into fruition but it will no doubt be late, over budget and too expensive to use.