Time to revisit HS2?

[BoredBloke]

Exactly. I think we've previously agreed about the Northern Powerhouse idea being flawed because of a lack of transport investment. This HS2 stuff is going some way towards addressing that by integrating with the existing network, rather than just providing an expensive funnel to London.

The walk up prices for tickets are stupid, but you can travel cheaper with a bit of forward planning. I'm off to London next week and got a first class return for £80 (off peak admittedly). If you had a gig down there you'd price it up on the cost of a season ticket, not on a £200 walk-up fare. Well, I would.

The thing I hate about the pricing is that they like to make out that the price is justifiable because of it being peak times. It implies that the trains are rammed at those times and that's not the case. I've travelled plenty of times at peak time and it's not been what you'd call full...and it only seems to get busy after the last stop at MK for the last 30 mins or so.

I once travelled stumping up £180+ to travel at peak time. In the first class coach I was on, I had the only reserved seat....there were 2 other passengers in the carriage. By the time the train pulled into London this number had grown to 11 - it had a capacity of 45, so just less than 25% full

[sal]

This looks good. I'm surprised. They've come up with a design that's nicely integrated into existing stuff and is leaving the door open for further enhancements.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...eb-version.pdf

Thoughts?

Seems like a whole lot of made up numbers...

100'000 Jobs created through growth around HS2 stations

That's a lot of coffee shops...

Over £2.5 benefit for very £1 spend

£103bn in benefits overall

I thought it was supposed to cost £17bn, so which one is it?


A friend of mine is working next to Euston and they are in process of moving to a new office as the current one is going to be demolished for the Euston expansion for the HS2, so it's happening like it or not.

[LondonManc]

Manchester is a nightmare these days. The M60 is too busy and can't cope with the current volume of traffic. It's being made into a smart motorway which means it will be a max of 50mph for the majority of the day. Getting out by train is extortionate and there are hardly any flights to London these days - all the flights out go to Heathrow meaning a long and expensive commute after the flight.

Some form of HS2 will eventually come into fruition but it will no doubt be late, over budget and too expensive to use.

Spot on. Then there's the snide trick that Virgin pull if you try to travel to London early hours on the Megabus. Clearly, only a pauper, an idiot or someone with no sense of smell would choose to return on the Megabus in the early evening, so the train it is. Now, you try and buy an off-peak single to come back this Friday evening from Virgin's website. The price? £81.40. If you'd bought it with an outbound ticket, it would only be £41.20 So, to save yourself some money, you have to do an extra step; order the return leg. You pair it up with some lunchtime train well into next year for £22, so that your single ticket is now £63.20 instead of £81.40.

This in turn looks like the trains are busier during the day and the fact that nobody will probably ever use that ticket is beside the point. One option is to use it for a Sunday evening well in the future to give you an option for travel, or to check football fixtures out when United or City are playing a London club on a Sunday and book four consecutive weeks to get a table together and play train ticket tout Probably worthy of a Panorama investigation really, both Branson and myself haha.

[DodgyAgent]

The thing I hate about the pricing is that they like to make out that the price is justifiable because of it being peak times. It implies that the trains are rammed at those times and that's not the case. I've travelled plenty of times at peak time and it's not been what you'd call full...and it only seems to get busy after the last stop at MK for the last 30 mins or so.

I once travelled stumping up £180+ to travel at peak time. In the first class coach I was on, I had the only reserved seat....there were 2 other passengers in the carriage. By the time the train pulled into London this number had grown to 11 - it had a capacity of 45, so just less than 25% full

Don't take it personally

[Mordac]

The thing I hate about the pricing is that they like to make out that the price is justifiable because of it being peak times. It implies that the trains are rammed at those times and that's not the case. I've travelled plenty of times at peak time and it's not been what you'd call full...and it only seems to get busy after the last stop at MK for the last 30 mins or so.

I once travelled stumping up £180+ to travel at peak time. In the first class coach I was on, I had the only reserved seat....there were 2 other passengers in the carriage. By the time the train pulled into London this number had grown to 11 - it had a capacity of 45, so just less than 25% full

The last time I went to Manchester by train (from Euston) it cost £27 less than an economy flight to New York on BA. Both were return fares, the train was an open return whereas the BA flight was a fixed return, but nonetheless, wtf?

[LondonManc]

The last time I went to Manchester by train (from Euston) it cost £27 less than an economy flight to New York on BA. Both were return fares, the train was an open return whereas the BA flight was a fixed return, but nonetheless, wtf?

The annoying thing is that the standard class carriages are packed on a weekday morning, yet first class is, as BB says, rarely more than 40% full.

[MrMarkyMark]

The annoying thing is that the standard class carriages are packed on a weekday morning, yet first class is, as BB says, rarely more than 40% full.

Certainly not annoying for those in 1st class, they certainly don't want to have to sit next to anyone

[LondonManc]

Certainly not annoying for those in 1st class, they certainly don't want to have to sit next to anyone

Typical first class fare, as follows. Booking now, to come down next Monday for a 9am start in the City and finish at 5pm on Friday, leaving as soon as I get to Euston on the first available train:
£177 to London, £237.50 to Manchester
If they ran trains direct to Manchester with no other stops at least every half hour, they could fill them and wouldn't need to worry about split-ticket garbage or people "wasting" a seat by getting off at MK.

[MrMarkyMark]

Typical first class fare, as follows. Booking now, to come down next Monday for a 9am start in the City and finish at 5pm on Friday, leaving as soon as I get to Euston on the first available train:
£177 to London, £237.50 to Manchester
If they ran trains direct to Manchester with no other stops at least every half hour, they could fill them and wouldn't need to worry about split-ticket garbage or people "wasting" a seat by getting off at MK.

I bet Mr Bransons more than happy with them

[LondonManc]

I bet Mr Bransons more than happy with them

To be fair, he'd probably be happier with fuller trains and more favourable reviews. I'd imagine 80% capacity in first class would be better for him.