Spain in state of total emergency

[BlasterBates]

Feck, it's happened again!

The main weakness of the Eurosceptic argument is that it's based more on emotion rather than economic reasoning, i.e. not wanting to be dominated by Germany.

But what you have to determine, is now that the Euro is in place what is the best way forward.

Sure...you can break up the Euro and it will work, but now is not the time to do it.

I think these emotional view points are driven very much by tabloid newspapers.

[Mich the Tester]

, the problem here was a bobble eyed buffoon in charge of the purse

And the buffoons who put his party and his predecessor in power.

[chef]

Well, feck this. I'm off today to go test drive a new car and will be shortly most likely buying a house in cash. Being a good German I have zero debts and life here has hardly changed on a day to day basis in the last 3 years, no shops closing, no people talking about cutting back, life goes on as normal. Petrol price changes are about the only thing that's been noticeable and even those are levelling off and even falling slightly.

[minestrone]

Not just Muslim but the Catholic religion is, supposedly, against interest as its a form of gambling. Interesting that its Catholic countries which are going under...

Bollocks.

Brazil is doing quite well as is Mexico.

[sasguru]

If Germany had the DM, the only country in Europe that gives a glimmer of hope and the financial clout to get the others out (Eurobonds) (and incidentally providing plenty of jobs to Greeks and Spaniards) would be diving into a deep recession as a result of a ....wait for it.......a currency crisis i.e. other currencies collapsing and the DM going sky high.

What you have just implicitly admitted above, is that Germany is in a strong place because the Euro was favourable to it.
Shame that wasn't the case for the other economies.
And that was the problem with the Euro in the first place, one size couldn't fit all. It was good for some and bad for others.
But all this was known and predicted at the time by those of us who have a brain.

HTH

[russell]

What you have just implicitly admitted above, is that Germany is in a strong place because the Euro was favourable to it.
Shame that wasn't the case for the other economies.
And that was the problem with the Euro in the first place, one size couldn't fit all. It was good for some and bad for others.
But all this was known and predicted at the time by those of us who have a brain.

HTH

WHS. There are two outcomes, Euro collapses or there is a super state layered over the countries and they become states controlled by a central government.

[sasguru]

For the hard of thinking like EO and BB - here it is in simple terms:

Inappropriately low interest rates for most of Eurozone over the last 10 years = low Euro = Good for German exports = Cheap money for unproductive PIIGs to buy German goods.

Rinse and repeat till predictable denoument.

HTH, BIDI.

[Coalman]

There is another potential solution that no-one will agree to - political union as per USA. Otherwise one currency with a multitude of governments with different electorates demanding different things cannot work.

The latest Fiscal Deal being voted on in Ireland is another step on this road.

I may be wrong, but did'nt Germany reject the Euro intitally but had to buy in to get Frances support for a unified Germany? If so, ironic that they have been the major beneficiary of the 'project'. But if so they have to take responsibility for the method of their gain, i.e. having weaker southern european states reducing the value of the Euro and making German exports cheaper than they would have been under the DM.

I don't have much sympathy for the German saying they shouldn't be paying when they have gained the most.

Put up or shut up and close the Euro project.

BTW - I agree with MTT assessment on the problems with democracy and the dangers of allowing large European failed states to throw their weight around. History is littered with examples: Austro-Hungary c1914, Tzarist Russia, Germany c1930 after Weimar republic debacle.

Anyway - I'm sure someone will call me an idiot because my views don't agree with them (cue Sas!).

[BlasterBates]

What you have just implicitly admitted above, is that Germany is in a strong place because the Euro was favourable to it.
Shame that wasn't the case for the other economies.
And that was the problem with the Euro in the first place, one size couldn't fit all. It was good for some and bad for others.
But all this was known and predicted at the time by those of us who have a brain.

HTH

Well if you take a random collection of countries then some will do well others won't.

All down to how a government runs it's own affairs. A currency is simply a means of exchange of goods, no more no less. You want to sell cheap, you earn cheap, your currency does not stop you earning "cheap".

Slovenia, Malta, Slovakia and Estonia have no problem with the Euro. You could hardly have a more different economy than coming from the East. and Malta is prime example that club Med can indeed do alright. These countries have much lower wages than other EU countries.

No-one forced Greece to overspend. No-one forced Spain to fuel an unstainable property boom. They could have left the Euro at anytime. No-one forced employers to overpay their employees, look at the Slovaks.

Any country can gorge themselves on cheap debt, they don't have to be in the Euro to do that. Global markets mean banks will flock to speculate on your boom knowing it's unsustainable but also thinking they can pull out on time ...and who cares as long as they get their bonus this year ( the reason for the unsustainable US property boom).

[OwlHoot]

... It's not the people who read the quality papers, the FT or the economist, or watch newsnight and piss around on TED.com or edge.org that worry me; it's the people whose brains are pulverised by a diet of Big Brother, ...

People who read the quality papers can be just as misguided and conned by politicians as Big Brother watchers, if not more so. Idealism makes fools out of anyone, and usually ends in disaster, and the quality paper readers are the most at risk of that.