Did Thatcher create the Chav underclass?

[The Lone Gunman]

funny how any debate with a tory leads to one of two things.

1. Moaning about how much tax the tory pays.

2. Claims that the 'socialist' is taking the moral high ground.

Every time.

Change the record please.

Why dont you just fook right off!

[John Galt]

BennO - would you mind answering my question please

[Dundeegeorge]

I re-iterate, who's a tory?

I never said you were on the moral high ground, only that you were claiming it.
And just how many times does it need to be spelled out to you socialists, it's not about the amount of tax paid, it's about the deceit and the waste of the tax money.
Just how good a health service could there be in this country if the money wasted on systems was spent wisely? But that's not going to happen because no one is accountable. Whoops, there goes another £20bn pissed up the wall.
Never mind, we can soak the rich (i.e. anyone not getting tax-credits, actually probably some of those getting tax-credits too) for a few more million, after all it's only fair.

[benn0]

BennO - would you mind answering my question please

Most of the tories on this board spend all their time whingeing about nothing else but tax. Thats what all their arguments come back to (This thread is a prime example). All they see is what goes into their pockets at the end of the day and as long as they're all right, screw the rest. The overall strength of the economy, control of inflation, employment etc just do not factor into their way of thinking.

They also cannot accept that their favoured government can take the blame for anything. Back to the orginal point of this. Thatcher developed a 'me me me' mentality and in my opinion she has to take some the the blame for the breakdown in social values that has taken place over the last twenty years. These days it is not uncommon to see whole streets where no-one speaks to or even acknowledges their neighbour. No-one trusts anyone anymore.

Her policies set those wheels in motion and now we are seeing the results.

No government is perfect. This one has many faults and I'm the first to admit that, but the way most of you talk, conservative governments can do no wrong.

Where else, apart from this board would a sociological argument turn into a group moan about how much tax we pay?

[Dundeegeorge]

That's one viewpoint

Another way of looking at it is that Thatcher encouraged people to take responsibiliity for themselves, and to take ownership of their lives.
There are no jobs for life nowadays (unless you belong to the political classes that is, of all hues). Tebbit said get on your bike and find work, but now there are too many people who would prefer to have a taxi to drive them to the dole office. Hint, that was an exagerration to make a point.
It's a waste. It's a waste of money and it's a waste of people.
You're practically telling a whole class of people that they're useless, they can not take care of themselves, they can't be responsible, they can't be trusted and they need to be taken care of. Very compassinate, very helpful, very controlling and very annoying.

[SameOldStory]

Most of the tories on this board spend all their time whingeing about nothing else but tax. Thats what all their arguments come back to (This thread is a prime example). All they see is what goes into their pockets at the end of the day and as long as they're all right, screw the rest. The overall strength of the economy, control of inflation, employment etc just do not factor into their way of thinking.

They also cannot accept that their favoured government can take the blame for anything. Back to the orginal point of this. Thatcher developed a 'me me me' mentality and in my opinion she has to take some the the blame for the breakdown in social values that has taken place over the last twenty years. These days it is not uncommon to see whole streets where no-one speaks to or even acknowledges their neighbour. No-one trusts anyone anymore.

Her policies set those wheels in motion and now we are seeing the results.

No government is perfect. This one has many faults and I'm the first to admit that, but the way most of you talk, conservative governments can do no wrong.

Where else, apart from this board would a sociological argument turn into a group moan about how much tax we pay?

who else, when on the losing end of an arguement, would try to limit the discussion to the areas where they think they have a chance, and declare certain areas out of bounds, and anybody discussing them as automatically wrong?

New Liebour spin anyone?

[DimPrawn]

Benn0, if you want to get on at New Lie towers you need to throw in some meaningless statistics to back up your argument.

Saying that you are well on your way to New Lie Dronedom.

[wendigo100]

Thatcher developed a 'me me me' mentality and in my opinion she has to take some the the blame for the breakdown in social values that has taken place over the last twenty years. These days it is not uncommon to see whole streets where no-one speaks to or even acknowledges their neighbour. No-one trusts anyone anymore.

Her policies set those wheels in motion and now we are seeing the results.

It was like that in the seventies as well.

There's nothing wrong with encouraging people to look after themselves.

It is also good to encourage people to support the less well off, but it is very difficult to know where to draw the line. That is because people develop a dependant mentality instead of trying to look after themselves, which is no good for anyone.

[The Lone Gunman]

I see you are selectively editing quotes!
The Thatch encouraged people to believe that they were important as individuals and that they should not accept being treated as lesser beings.
That went hand in hand with being responsible.
She also tried to introduce a system where those who worked hard enjoyed the benefits of their labour.
You have igneored the second part of my post which clearly stated that I believe the chav class is a result of the benefits system getting out of control.
We now have a class of people who believe they are entitled to enjoy the benefits of everybody elses labour without doing a stroke of their own. That is purely down to NL.

Even if Thatch was responsible NL have had 9 years to sort it out. You and they can not use the excuse that it was inherited from the Tories.

[John Galt]

Most of the tories on this board spend all their time whingeing about nothing else but tax. Thats what all their arguments come back to (This thread is a prime example). All they see is what goes into their pockets at the end of the day and as long as they're all right, screw the rest. The overall strength of the economy, control of inflation, employment etc just do not factor into their way of thinking.

They also cannot accept that their favoured government can take the blame for anything. Back to the orginal point of this. Thatcher developed a 'me me me' mentality and in my opinion she has to take some the the blame for the breakdown in social values that has taken place over the last twenty years. These days it is not uncommon to see whole streets where no-one speaks to or even acknowledges their neighbour. No-one trusts anyone anymore.

Her policies set those wheels in motion and now we are seeing the results.

No government is perfect. This one has many faults and I'm the first to admit that, but the way most of you talk, conservative governments can do no wrong.

Where else, apart from this board would a sociological argument turn into a group moan about how much tax we pay?

Thatcher did not develop a 'me, me, me' mentality at all - that is your interpretation. What she did do was to encourage people to take responsibility for their own lives and their own finances. More importantly she encouraged entrepreneurialism which is essential to maintaining a sound economy. The Labour government have actively discouraged people from seeking success (and the wealth that usually goes with it) but they have promoted the 'I want' and 'It's not fair' mentality and that is where you should look for the demise of social values. NL have encouraged those that promote equality and human rights without any consideration what those policies really mean. It has been proved throughout history that any form of socialism or communism doesn't work yet Socialist governments still keep trying. People are not saints and nor should they be yet that is what is required to fulfill the dream of solicialism - people are expected to study and train and learn for years at a time to do a job that will only offer the same financial reward as someone who has put no effort into the development of a career. You will no doubt argue that not everyone has the mental capability to become a doctor and that is true but everyone has, to a great extent, control over their own destiny.

NL have told us that they want to reduce the gap between rich and poor - great - but the gap should not be closed by reducing us all to a level of mediocrity. The nanny state that they have created has allowed a substantial part of the population to blame their failures on everyone else. NL have convinced them that they are entitled to a certain standard of living regardless of whether they have worked for it - this has bred resentment and discontent.

I don't agree with all of Thatcher's policies but she was better for this country, its economy and population that NL will ever be