Did Thatcher create the Chav underclass?

[cojak]

As Rab C. Nesbit pointed out

They used to be known as Scum of the Earth, before being known as the Underclass and some were more comfortable with the old (pre-Thatcherite) title.

[Fungus]

I do find it a wee bit ironic that you mention Mrs T's patronising manor while in the same paragrapgh commenting on how "young people fall for such superficial aspects of a person." That's a doozy.

And you may want to go check out a political dictionary and check out the meanings of socialist, communist, stalanist etc. Russia was never a socialist country back in Mrs T's day (Though you'll find gullible people in all walks of life), though South Africa was still under apartheid and Chile was run by a dictator who 'disappeared' quite a number of people, but that's ok cause he was our mate then ...

I've no idea what a doozy is. I don't see what point you are making. My original was clear enough.

You should suggest to lefties not me that they check the dictionaries. People like Benn and and other senior pinkos were enamoured of the Soviet Union. Some lefties are still enamoured of Cuba.

[DodgyAgent]

Dodgy: To be fair our manufacturing base was a victim of Maggy. She was determined to help propsperous industries and investors where ever she could. That meant opening the door to overseas manufacture in the name of profit.
This was meant to keep prices down and the standard of living up. What it realy did was boost profits for corporations which were not necessarily UK based.
We only survived that because there were service sector jobs for people to move into. Where we will go when Tone has off shored the service industry I dont know. Lesson not learned I would say.

I agree with most of what you say about Maggie, but she is not blameless in the woes of this country though, like Tone, she may not have seen some of the consequences coming.
We needed to go through some painful years to put this country back on its feet. She did it.
The people who hated her were the scroungers of the day or those whose feather beds were pulled out from under them.

For my part: I was made redundant 3 times in the early eighties and spent half of the decade unemployed. Finding work was hard. As the economy picked up so did the oportunities for work. I also took the chance of further Education. Not sure I could do the same now though.

LG, I may give the impression that I think Maggie walks on water in everything she did, but I do agree she was not perfect. She was a crisis person brought in to do a particular job which made her quite one dimensional. I will say that it is quite absurd that she would act according to petty personal prejudices (these people are usually weak and useless -todays NL MPs for example). I will also accept your points about her maybe destroying manufacturing.However protection never works for anyones benefit especially when the tide of events makes it more difficult for protectionism to exist. Deliberatly or not by opening our markets up to foreign ownership and competition we are now far better prepared to compete in a global economy through our service sector than any other, certainly European, nation is.

[DodgyAgent]

I've no idea what a doozy is. I don't see what point you are making. My original was clear enough.

You should suggest to lefties not me that they check the dictionaries. People like Benn and and other senior pinkos were enamoured of the Soviet Union. Some lefties are still enamoured of Cuba.

The best that the left can do is "pick" there is not one of them that can present a coherent alternative to Thatcher. They wont even accept that problems existed whereby it became necessary to bring in Maggie. Had they not run society according to their guilt, class envy and patronising underestimation of the working classes there would have been no need for Maggie to become PM.

[Fungus]

The best that the left can do is "pick" there is not one of them that can present a coherent alternative to Thatcher. They wont even accept that problems existed whereby it became necessary to bring in Maggie. Had they not run society according to their guilt, class envy and patronising underestimation of the working classes there would have been no need for Maggie to become PM.

I think both parties knew in the 70's that all was not well in the state of Britain. But the socialists - Wilson and Callaghan - believed in consensual politics, as did Heath. Unfortunately consensual politics, which meant negotiating with the unions, was not realistic, as they were basically corrupt and undemocratic.

Sadly Thatcher's confrontation politics was the only real option.

You say that Thatcher destroyed manufacturing, well I'm not so sure. There were losses but she gave rise to strong companies such as Rolls Royce, Vodaphone and BT. Manufacturing has been going down the pan under Telfon and Flash. Which is odd because the economic stability since about 1992 would seem to favour manufacturing.

[The Lone Gunman]

You say that Thatcher destroyed manufacturing, well I'm not so sure. There were losses but she gave rise to strong companies such as Rolls Royce, Vodaphone and BT. Manufacturing has been going down the pan under Telfon and Flash. Which is odd because the economic stability since about 1992 would seem to favour manufacturing.

Nich and "protected" markets were never in danger. Most of the big UK concerns are foreign owned like RR and BT and vodaphone are not realy manufacturers. The hand sets and kit are all foreign made.
We used to make massive amounts of electricals and our steel mills provided the world. Our textiles and clothing industries were all exporters. It has all gone. What we have left may be strong but they are few and far between and are all pretty small.

[threaded]

Good point, I was watching a documentary about the manufacture of a Mercedes engine and blow me if they weren't giving an example of the Cosworth Process as an example of fine German engineering innovation.

[Xenophon]

Good point, I was watching a documentary about the manufacture of a Mercedes engine and blow me if they weren't giving an example of the Cosworth Process as an example of fine German engineering innovation.

Mercedes Benz 190E Cosworth 2.5 16v - the thinking man's M3

[wendigo100]

Good point, I was watching a documentary about the manufacture of a Mercedes engine and blow me if they weren't giving an example of the Cosworth Process as an example of fine German engineering innovation.

I remember when all Formula One motor racing teams except Ferrari had a Ford Cosworth engine. Most of them seem to use German and Japanese engines now.

[KentPhilip]

Can't we tell the Al Qaeda fanatics in this country that the chavs actually are in charge of things. Then Al Qaeda might blow them up instead of London commuters, and the chavs might fight back and kill some of them.
A result - two times over...