Greek Austerity Measures...

[BlasterBates]

Well I was watching a report on CNN and they had a 50 year old pensioner pointing out his hardship. There was a woman who couldn't feed her kids but their main problem appeared to be obesity, so I think a few weeks on reduced rations would do them a power of good.

The main problem in Greece is inequality you've got people screwing the system and others thrown on the street. Yes you could throw money at this, but they have to sort it out themselves.

I don't think anyone would object to providing assistance to families with genuine hardship, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't cost a lot, but how do you separate necessary support from feather bedding the state officials doing two jobs (wink wink nudge nudge).

[DodgyAgent]

...have they gone too far?

Ok, in all seriousness, do we really want to see old people forced to raid litter bins for food?

Enough is enough, surely there is a better way out of this mess.

If this does turn into a contagion and spreads across Europe, I won't be robbing litter bins to feed my family!

It's probably a good job that we're pulling troops out of Afghanistan, because we're likely to need them on the streets here in the UK.

Where has this social conscience come from Spod?

Niall Ferguson in the Times on Sunday wrote a very interesting article. He said that the Germans and their huge companies in particular would not let the Euro fall apart and that the fall out would be so serious it would hit their own economy very hard.
The outcome will be that Germany and the EU will take over the finances of the Euro with a central bank and the issuing of Eurobonds. This will mean the ceding of almost all the power of the EU nation states to an unelected EU (Germany). He argues that this will be made easier by the fact that many people are totally disillusioned with their own sovereign governments and that being run by the Germans is better than what they already have

Ferguson also argues that this may have been a deliberate act by the federalist elite of the EU in order to centralise power. If it was it was very clever.

I had some arguments on here about the desirability of the UK being ruled by Europe and although the UK will be forced to sit outside it looks as if for the rest of Europe it is going to happen

There are two reasons why Greece will not be allowed to leave firstly in case they become wealthy outside of the EU and secondly the threat of the "knock on" effect.

He also argues that populist movements are irrelevant and will be subsumed into the EU federation.

[d000hg]

If this does turn into a contagion and spreads across Europe, I won't be robbing litter bins to feed my family!

Damn right, you send the family out to forage while you guard the house.

[SupremeSpod]

Where has this social conscience come from Spod?

Fatherhood, probably.

[d000hg]

The main problem in Greece is inequality you've got people screwing the system and others thrown on the street. Yes you could throw money at this, but they have to sort it out themselves.

When in history has that ever happened?

[SimonMac]

My question is how bad could it really be for Greek if they were to default? Iceland seemed to have recovered better than people expected. It seems the only people who would lose out from the Greek's defaulting would really be the Germans.

[Old Hack]

I am not sure that Argentina ever recovered properly. The current government are cooking the books regards inflation (official 10%/unofficial 30%), being chased for outstanding debts and nationalising large private companies (Respol) thereby frightening off investment.

I think thats more about worrying about not being energy independent, more than simply nationalising firms.

By the way, Repsol are Spanish, and they haven't nationalised it. What they did do, is nationalise the Argenitinian company (YPF), stealing Repsols stake, but I digress. Some would say Menem was an idiot for privatising it in the first place, given most of the money it has made has left the Argentinian economy.

[DodgyAgent]

My question is how bad could it really be for Greek if they were to default? Iceland seemed to have recovered better than people expected. It seems the only people who would lose out from the Greek's defaulting would really be the Germans.

The Greeks really have nothing to lose - so the threat of bringing the whole pack of cards down is probably their best option.

[Old Hack]

My question is how bad could it really be for Greek if they were to default? Iceland seemed to have recovered better than people expected. It seems the only people who would lose out from the Greek's defaulting would really be the Germans.

...and I think this is the reason it'll not happen.

However, big things need to change in the German constitution for this to happen. They can't just agree to it, it has to go to a referendum, I believe, or at least through German parliament, and whilst most germans understand the Euro is a necessity for their productivity, not many will be up for becoming, effectively, guarantors on Greek/Spanish/Italian/Portuguese/Irish debt.

My own thoughts, are that the Germans will cave in, and bail Greece out through the issuing of Eurobonds. However, this might be circumvented by the Greeks issuing an adroit middle finger.

Lets remember, too, that the Germans didn't really want to have a unified currency, it was the folly of the French, who demanded the Germans back it, in order to gain support for the reunification of Germany, we were also on that particular ship...

[The_Equalizer]

I think thats more about worrying about not being energy independent, more than simply nationalising firms.

By the way, Repsol are Spanish, and they haven't nationalised it. What they did do, is nationalise the Argenitinian company (YPF), stealing Repsols stake, but I digress. Some would say Menem was an idiot for privatising it in the first place, given most of the money it has made has left the Argentinian economy.

Yes, it was YPF which was the Argentine subsidiary, but it does make up a considerable part of Repsol. However, that wasn't the point I was making, it was more that Argentina isn't in the best of economic health so using it as an example for Greece wasn't the best idea.