I'm guessing that this is going to come and bite him big time.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

The financial industry had it coming. For years they have been taking the piss with endowment misselling, pension misselling, ridiculous penalties for late fees, even ridiculous fees for paying off a loan early. Nobody liked them before the financial crisis, so to blame it all on a bit of media spin is frankly ridiculous. It's 50 years of frustration coming out, not 2 or 3.

I don't know enough about pensions or endowments to comment on whether or not they were 'mis-sold' but I do know that consumerism is voluntary and that no-one had a gun put to their head forcing them to buy whatever products were on offer. Same applies to overdraft fees or late payment fees - if you don't want to pay a fee don't go overdrawn - an overdraft is paying for your chosen expenditure with someone else's cash. I am also fairly sure that the Government made some significant tax changes that resulted in a reduced pension income for all and sundry

I agree that some of the banks made stupid (with hindsight possibly) investments and that no-one should be rewarded for failure (bonuses should be paid 24 months + in arrears so that there is a true picture of performance rather than a snap shot) but this constant 'fat cat' bashing will achieve nothing other than to reinforce Socialist policy that success should only be encouraged when not the creator of that success but the non-contributors will be rewarded.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

The optimal tax rate from the treasury's perspective is neither here nor there. To someone on 50k paying ~30% tax and struggling to make ends meet, someone earning millions and paying 25% is getting a far better deal, and telling him that screwing him harder than the other guy makes your life as a politician easier isn't going to end well. A politician can argue with him till he's blue in the face, at the end of it he'll decide the politician is a ****** and vote for someone else, because his fundamental inbuilt idea of what is and isn't fair says that he's getting screwed.

That is the fundamental problem. You need to reconcile the economics and mathematics of large scale systems with an intuitive idea of fairness that evolved in much smaller social groups. It requires a better metric of utility than cash.

Or we need to introduce a flat rate of tax across the board which would ultimately save the country billions

[BrilloPad]

Or we need to introduce a flat rate of tax across the board which would ultimately save the country billions

Or here is a novel idea - 2 rates. Like Maggie did. Unfortunately all the cretins who came after her have no idea.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Or here is a novel idea - 2 rates. Like Maggie did. Unfortunately all the cretins who came after her have no idea.

People who have never worked for a living

[Scoobos]

I do know that consumerism is voluntary

Modern marketing research would contest that statement. I also believe that since the advent of TV and it being used as a babysitter - it's totally niave to think theres anything voluntary about it at all. We are a social experiment in conditioning - its been blamed for the recent riots and I think that arguement holds a bit of credibility.

I'm not saying all consumerism is bad, but marketing is very very powerful nowadays and it pays to be aware of it.

Marketing and Consumerism | Special Issues for Young Children
Cycle of 'compulsive consumerism' leaves British family life in crisis, Unicef study finds - Telegraph
Watch not, want not? Kids' TV time tied to consumerism

It's a very interesting topic.

[SupremeSpod]

Modern marketing research would contest that statement. I also believe that since the advent of TV and it being used as a babysitter - it's totally niave to think theres anything voluntary about it at all. We are a social experiment in conditioning - its been blamed for the recent riots and I think that arguement holds a bit of credibility.

I'm not saying all consumerism is bad, but marketing is very very powerful nowadays and it pays to be aware of it.

Marketing and Consumerism | Special Issues for Young Children
Cycle of 'compulsive consumerism' leaves British family life in crisis, Unicef study finds - Telegraph
Watch not, want not? Kids' TV time tied to consumerism

It's a very interesting topic.

Only to the feeble-minded!

And people who pay £5 for a fake IQ test.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Modern marketing research would contest that statement. I also believe that since the advent of TV and it being used as a babysitter - it's totally niave to think theres anything voluntary about it at all. We are a social experiment in conditioning - its been blamed for the recent riots and I think that arguement holds a bit of credibility.

I'm not saying all consumerism is bad, but marketing is very very powerful nowadays and it pays to be aware of it.

Marketing and Consumerism | Special Issues for Young Children
Cycle of 'compulsive consumerism' leaves British family life in crisis, Unicef study finds - Telegraph
Watch not, want not? Kids' TV time tied to consumerism

It's a very interesting topic.

All of which is why I believe in individual responsibility and not the collective responsibility desired by successive Governments - to quote from the film 'Free will - it is a b**tch'

[doodab]

I don't know enough about pensions or endowments to comment on whether or not they were 'mis-sold'

One presumes you are too young to remember. It was big news for a long time.

BBC NEWS | Business | Pensions scandal costs £11.8bn

'Endowment mis-selling is a national scandal' - Telegraph

And to some extent they are still at it.

A £20bn pension mis-selling scandal? - Telegraph

but I do know that consumerism is voluntary and that no-one had a gun put to their head forcing them to buy whatever products were on offer.

Sure, no one had a gun to their head but if someone tells you this private pension will make you better off when they know it won't but they get a healthy commission, or tells you that this endowment mortgage will cost you less than this repayment one and doesn't bother to tell you that the endowment one might result in you not actually paying back the money you've borrowed but they will get a healthy commission anyway, then you are being conned, pure and simple. This is what I mean by the making of profit being used as justification for immoral behaviour. The financial services industry knew damn well what they were doing, namely exploiting people's naivety and gullibility, followed by a sustained attempt at hiding behind "caveat emptor".

The fact that the man in the street / lady on the internet will actually defend these people speaks volumes about just how far standards have slipped.

[original PM]

I don't know enough about pensions or endowments to comment on whether or not they were 'mis-sold' but I do know that consumerism is voluntary and that no-one had a gun put to their head forcing them to buy whatever products were on offer. Same applies to overdraft fees or late payment fees - if you don't want to pay a fee don't go overdrawn - an overdraft is paying for your chosen expenditure with someone else's cash. I am also fairly sure that the Government made some significant tax changes that resulted in a reduced pension income for all and sundryI agree that some of the banks made stupid (with hindsight possibly) investments and that no-one should be rewarded for failure (bonuses should be paid 24 months + in arrears so that there is a true picture of performance rather than a snap shot) but this constant 'fat cat' bashing will achieve nothing other than to reinforce Socialist policy that success should only be encouraged when not the creator of that success but the non-contributors will be rewarded.

I kind of agree with you - however if you go £5 over drawn because a direct debit bounces you get

£35 (ish) letter saying you have gone over drawn
£35 (ish) letter telling you have a bounced dd
£35 (ish) letter because items 1 and 2 have made you go further over drawn

I think that is the problem - the costs are completly disproportunate to the initial cost to the bank

[Scoobos]

All of which is why I believe in individual responsibility and not the collective responsibility desired by successive Governments - to quote from the film 'Free will - it is a b**tch'

Sure yeah, as infants have individual responsibility don't they - I wish ... They could change their own nappies for a start.