Fuel Strike

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Can you please tell me why the **** soldiers who die in Afghanistan get paid £20k and do their duty to drive tankers when those guys who get paid £45k in UK don't like something about it? If you want a lot more money get another job or start your own company, hire other people etc.

I would have understood if oil workers wanted payraise because of high price of oil, but a lot of companies especially in transport ain't doing too well, just how the **** that company is supposed to please those workers, should it magically increase sales?

The Govt should either outlaw national unions or to counter balance them allow national agreements between companies on pay and other matters, how would union like if nobody in their industry offered more than £35k instead of £45k?

What conditions do you expect for driving a lorry? Scented showers in the back of the cab? A back rub every 100 miles? Perhaps someone to read you an extract of Tolstoy accompanied by soothing whale music??

£45k. £900 per week to drive a fooking lorry. Seriously f u c k off loads of people can do that. Yosser Hughes could do that! F u c k i n g twats don't even know they're born.

I ****ing hate Tolstoy!

So any time their pay and conditions get worse, they should just carry on like good boys and girls and not complain, and that will make everyone happy and the nation prosper and kids will start to dance in the streets and sing nice songs is that it? No-one should ever try and make an effort to stand up for themselves, just accept crapper and crapper wages and pensions - that's what you are all saying, right?

[AtW]

So any time their pay and conditions get worse, they should just carry on like good boys and girls and not complain

Listen, first of all they can go out to the job market and get another job where conditions are better ok? If somebody made them a better offer then they should go to the boss and ask to match it or they resign.

Secondly they can maybe unite for real, start their own company and set whatever conditions they fancy. Their Union bosses can become bosses of the company and show the world for a change how to run it properly. I'd be keen to see it!

Thirdly, when the company isn't doing particularly well and nothing in oil business makes money apart from getting oil in the first place (and bankers spekulating on it), it sure is totally wrong to demand something extra from company that provides them with jobs in the first place?

They don't have to accept crapper wages - if they want more then they should maybe change career, perhaps look around who else in UK makes £45k per year - they are probably in top 20% best paid people in UK at the moment.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Thirdly, when the company isn't doing particularly well and nothing in oil business makes money apart from getting oil in the first place, it sure is totally wrong to demand something extra from company that provides them with jobs in the first place?

Top brass never seem to have a problem getting paid more and more all the time plus a fat pension for presiding over failure - maybe the drivers are just taking a leaf out their book? Yosser Hughes could've run RBS better than Sir Fred - but is he likely to get the chance or a £640k pension when he bankrupts it? It all seems a bit double standards to me.

None of you has said why it's in these workers interests to accept the race to the bottom that you advocate.

[AtW]

maybe the drivers are just taking a leaf out their book?

I think drivers take leaf from book of those who extort money.

None of you has said why it's in these workers interests to accept the race to the bottom that you advocate.

They don't have to accept it - they can go out and find a better paying job, perhaps change their career completely, I am all for it. What I am not for is that these workers extort money from company whilst being pretty well paid already (as evidenced by much lower paid army guys who'd have to drive tankers instead of them), especially at times when company isn't doing particularly too well (who does in transporation when oil prices keep going up?).

Let me repeat so that your stupid commie brain understands - seeking work elsewhere or changing career are acceptable choices, but extorting money from company with threat of strikes isn't.

IMHO, the Govt should loan Army soldiers to that company so same conditions - half profit paid to soldiers, half to Govt. I am pretty sure enough people will join the Army to get such job - it's not like those tanker drivers are under threat of IEDs or RPGs. Which gives me an idea - send them to the tour of duty in Afghanistan, pay them £20k a year to face deadly threat every day and if they ****ing do it then you can bet they'll appreciate £45k civilian job.

btw, what is your edukation friend? Surely you must have had even basic lessons of economics?

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I think drivers take leaf from book of those who extort money.



They don't have to accept it - they can go out and find a better paying job, perhaps change their career completely, I am all for it. What I am not for is that these workers extort money from company whilst being pretty well paid already (as evidenced by much lower paid army guys who'd have to drive tankers instead of them), especially at times when company isn't doing particularly too well (who does in transporation when oil prices keep going up?).

Let me repeat so that your stupid commie brain understands - seeking work elsewhere or changing career are acceptable choices, but extorting money from company with threat of strikes isn't.

IMHO, the Govt should loan Army soldiers to that company so same conditions - half profit paid to soldiers, half to Govt. I am pretty sure enough people will join the Army to get such job - it's not like those tanker drivers are under threat of IEDs or RPGs. Which gives me an idea - send them to the tour of duty in Afghanistan, pay them £20k a year to face deadly threat every day and if they ****ing do it then you can bet they'll appreciate £45k civilian job.

btw, what is your edukation friend? Surely you must have had even basic lessons of economics?

I find your continual references to the Army a bit odd. Of course it takes a hell of lot more guts to face IEDs etc than it does to drive a truck, but the Army isn't a free market. I guess you wouldn't suggest people who were unhappy with Army pay should start their own better paid one? So there's no real comparison, is there. I have the greatest respect for those who serve in our forces, but I don't give them the difference between my pay and theirs, nor do you, and nor is there any particular reason why a guy who drives a petrol tanker should.
Also, in the Army you don't have six different pension providers in 10 years, and whilst the pay's not spectacular, it's not being cut all the time.

You basic outlook, as backed up by your most recent bizzare advocacy of a tour of duty for tanker drivers seems to be that however crappy it is, it isn't as crappy as something that's more crappy and therefore they should be grateful for wage cuts, safety corner-cutting and pensions erosions, because there's always someone worse off (even if oil companies are making record profits). My question, which still hasn't been answered, is how we will all benefit from this "shut up and be grateful" culture.

I did some rudimentary economics at University as part of my subsidiary, I don't claim to be an expert, but this isn't argument about economics, it's a matter of attitude. I didn't get a degree anyway - but you think you know that already since you say I'm "stupid" because I have a point of view you disagree with. That's fair enough I suppose, it wouldn't do to accept anyone else has a valid argument, or maybe just an opinion that you just don't agree with would it? No doubt you have a range of superior paper qualifications that you entitle you to a more valid opinion and give you the right to call other people stupid.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Oh - and I find this a bit pathetic, really

Get some business edukation twunt. Real AtW
Rep from: AtW

[AtW]

I find your continual references to the Army a bit odd.

They are relevant because it is guys who serve in the Army who'd have to take over the job of fuel tank drivers whilst they strike - salary comparison is essential to understand that fuel tank drivers in UK get pretty good job compared to Army fuel tank drivers in a hostile country.

you think you know that already since you say I'm "stupid" because I have a point of view you disagree with.

I disagree with pretty much everybody on here

But unlike many people on here you are stupid in your support of Labour, unions and everything around it. This is because you are totally one sided, pathetic loser who had all chances in the world to be great by living in a free country like UK.

Do you even appreciate what it is to have a company that pays employees other than yourself £45k? Do you understand what's involved in keeping such company alive in current climate? No, you don't know tulip about it - same as those fuel tank drivers.

[AtW]

Oh - and I find this a bit pathetic, really

Get some business edukation twunt. Real AtW
Rep from: AtW

I'll donate you £10 towards evening MBA course if you manage to get enough pledges to pay full market price for it.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

They are relevant because it is guys who serve in the Army who'd have to take over the job of fuel tank drivers whilst they strike - salary comparison is essential to understand that fuel tank drivers in UK get pretty good job compared to Army fuel tank drivers in a hostile country.



I disagree with pretty much everybody on here

But unlike many people on here you are stupid in your support of Labour, unions and everything around it. This is because you are totally one sided, pathetic loser who had all chances in the world to be great by living in a free country like UK.

Do you even appreciate what it is to have a company that pays employees other than yourself £45k? Do you understand what's involved in keeping such company alive in current climate? No, you don't know tulip about it - same as those fuel tank drivers.

Ok, so far I am a pathetic loser, a twunt and stupid (notice I haven't negged you back either of the times you've negged me as I don't wish to stoop to your level). These are all well-worn and frankly a little pointless. For what it's worth, I find your assumption that I have no idea what's involved in keeping a company going arrogant and patronising, but not at all surprising given the playground insults.

When you're done lecturing me about the freedoms I was lucky to have, you may wish to remind yourself that one of the key ones is freedom of thought and expression - and freedom to have an opinion. You seem to be forever trapped by the one party mentality you were brought up with - you decided one-party extremist socialism was a bad thing and I agree, but you seem to think unfettered capitalism has the answer to everything instead and that even the most moderate defence of workers pay and conditions should be stamped out immediately by State intervention. I therefore put it to you that you have the more closed and dogmatic outlook.

You still haven't answered my question - I assume it's because you don't have an answer, just a string of insults but no logical arguments as usual.

[AtW]

you may wish to remind yourself that one of the key ones is freedom of thought and expression - and freedom to have an opinion.

Yes, you have freedom to be an idiot.

You still haven't answered my question - I assume it's because you don't have an answer, just a string of insults but no logical arguments as usual.

I've answered your questions nicely - if those truckers don't like the conditions of work they have they can pursue a number of choices:
1) get another job in the same industry in a company that offers them better conditions
2) create their own company working for the benefit of union members and share any profits - John Lewis model
3) change career completely and do something else
4) STFU and be grateful they've got a well paying job that can be done by a soldier that normally risks his life for £20k

Now you, cretin, tell me exactly what you don't understand about those choices?