Originally posted by sasguru
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Britain will be the strongest major economy in Europe for the next 2 years, says IMF
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And what exactly is wrong with an "ad hominem" argument? Dodgy Agent, 16-5-2014 -
Originally posted by Mich the Tester View PostI think there are enough solutions to Europe's debt problems AND Greece's crisis; the trouble is that they're probably not politically acceptable.
And unlike the banking crisis which was caused by greed, and hence has a possibility for a long term fix, this one doesn't execept by revolution.
But push the southern states enough and a revolution there will be.Hard Brexit now!
#prayfornodealComment
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If Greece leaves the euro maybe they'll be able to kickstart their tourism industry as it'll be a lot cheaper to go thereIn Scooter we trustComment
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Originally posted by sasguru View PostQuite. This is a politican-created crisis.
And unlike the banking crisis which was caused by greed, and hence has a possibility for a long term fix, this one doesn't execept by revolution.
But push the southern states enough and a revolution there will be.
Thing is, try selling that to your average northern European taxpayer/voter.And what exactly is wrong with an "ad hominem" argument? Dodgy Agent, 16-5-2014Comment
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Originally posted by Mich the Tester View PostI think that whether Greece stays in the Euro or not, northern Europe will have to keep subsidizing Greece anyway for some time to come; quite simply, Greece is on the edge of Europe, guards borders and a lot of coastline that need defending against the greatest fear of the very same people who oppose the EU; immigration. It's also an EU member that could spew out its young people all over Europe if they're unable to find work in Greece or if the state collapses in violence. Basically, if people want less immigrants or at least, not more immigration, then they'll have to subsidize Europe's border economies. Whether that's in the EU, the Euro or not is irrelevant; we have a basket case economy in Europe, bordering on Turkey, Albania, Bulgaria and Macedonia which will need help for some time; cut them loose and there will be chaos and bloodshed. That help needs to have as its main aim to help the Greek economy and state to stand on its own two feet and provide incentive for people to stick around in Greece; the debts may as well be written off as we're going to be paying their bills for some time to come anyway.
Thing is, try selling that to your average northern European taxpayer/voter.
The best solution for Greece IMHO is an aided exit. Let them keep all EU rights, help them set up the drachma (it could even shadow or peg the Euro if they felt up to the discipline, with a view to eventually rejoining), take the debt hit (it's going to happen anyway).
Basically do everthying to let them get as competitive as they can with some very strict criteria for rejoining when they were ready as assessed by outside observers.Hard Brexit now!
#prayfornodealComment
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Originally posted by sasguru View PostVery sensible viewpoint.
The best solution for Greece IMHO is an aided exit. Let them keep all EU rights, help them set up the drachma (it could even shadow or peg the Euro if they felt up to the discipline, with a view to eventually rejoining), take the debt hit (it's going to happen anyway).
Basically do everthying to let them get as competitive as they can with some very strict criteria for rejoining when they were ready as assessed by outside observers.
It's not like you can influence the decisions or have any say in the outcome whatsoever.
Go back to the shed and turn off the Wifi, there's a good chap.Comment
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Originally posted by DimPrawn View PostWhy do you go on and on about this tulipe?
It's not like you can influence the decisions or have any say in the outcome whatsoever.
Go back to the shed and turn off the Wifi, there's a good chap.Hard Brexit now!
#prayfornodealComment
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Originally posted by sasguru View PostVery sensible viewpoint.
The best solution for Greece IMHO is an aided exit. Let them keep all EU rights, help them set up the drachma (it could even shadow or peg the Euro if they felt up to the discipline, with a view to eventually rejoining), take the debt hit (it's going to happen anyway).
Basically do everthying to let them get as competitive as they can with some very strict criteria for rejoining when they were ready as assessed by outside observers.
But then this isn't something that's easy to explain to voters who prefer one-liners and false promises from populist politicians, who seem to be en vogue in Europe right now. That's one reason I say that the solutions might not be politically acceptable.And what exactly is wrong with an "ad hominem" argument? Dodgy Agent, 16-5-2014Comment
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Originally posted by sasguru View PostA man should know his limitations.Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyoneComment
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Revised GDP reveals struggling economy
Something of a contradiction with the OP. Could it be Rimmer is full of, wait for it, does anyone smell that? ugh
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/busine...cle3330625.ece
The British economy has recovered less than half of the output it lost during the 2008-09 slump, with the “subdued” environment continuing into the fourth quarter of last year, according to the Office for National Statistics.
Gross Domestic Product (GDP) shrank by a quarterly 0.2 per cent in the final three months of the year, according to the second official estimate of the economy’s performance for the period, released this morning.
Corporate investment slumped, in a worrying piece of data for George Osborne, who is counting on business spending to help revive growth.
Business investment fell by £1.7 billion to £28.7 billion, according to the ONS.
The figures showed that industrial production slid by 1.4 per cent, within which manufacturing dropped by 0.8 per cent.
Households delivered a modest boost, raising spending by 0.5 per cent in the final quarter, but that followed four straight quarters of declines. Incomes remained under pressure, with employee compensation dropping 0.3 per cent.
The economy was supported by higher exports, with trade deficit shrinking to £2.5 billion in the fourth quarter from £4.4 billion in the third.
The figures confirm a picture of an economy struggling to make headway despite a Bank of England stimulus programme that is headed for £325 billion. The UK has grown by 3.4 per cent since the end of the recession, underperforming peers such as the US and Germany.
The Bank of England forecasts that the economy will revive in the current quarter, rising by 0.5 per cent, but Sir Mervyn King, the Bank Governor, has warned it will “zig-zag” this year because of one-off factors such as the Diamond Jubilee bank holiday.
Samuel Tombs, an economist at Capital Economics, said: “While it was encouraging to see that real household spending rose by 0.5 per cent — the first rise since the second quarter of 2010 – households are unlikely to be able to keep increasing their spending as unemployment rises, credit constraints tighten and inflation continues to erode their real spending power.”"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". Mark TwainComment
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